Manual routing in UI7

Community Playground General Discussions
#1

I’ve installed Fibaro FGS221 (node #34) in my basement. I’ve included it in my Vera Lite via the battery mode on Vera as it is too far away to have a direct connection. Then I’ve moved Vera to it is usual place and did a Z-wave heal. However the node still couldn’t be reached somehow even tho Fibaro wall plug (node #22) is on the other side of the wall. Node #22 has got a good connection and is reporting power usage in real time. Both nodes have each other’s listed in Neighbors. I have tried ManualRoute without success. 22 didn’t work as well as picking the best route for 22 and adding it at the end (24.22). I also do a heal everytime I change something and if I press Update Neighbor Nodes in device options I get “Received empty response.”

AutoRoute is picking the worst possible nodes as only node #24 is even remotly close: 27-175x,33.27-187x,26.27-188x,33.24-192x

I get it to work for a few moments if I press B button on the relay but soon after it goes back to “Can’t Detect Device”.

Does anyone know what I am doing wrong and how can I get a connection to node #34?!

Vera Lite
UI7
Z-wave 2.78
Use Vera routing instead of Z-Wave (requires 4.5) is checked

#2

You are probably doing nothing wrong but it exists a major bug in UI7 causing several Z-Wave devices having the error “can’t detect device”. That is one of the biggest issue in UI7 and the reason why I finally decided to downgrade to UI5.

#3

I need to bring this thread up again, I have 6 devices that wont settle down. They were fine for several months. Now, one minute they are fine with 5 stars and the next they are offline. I have tried eveything from delete and re-add to moving the base unit closer, better antenna ect.

Do we have routing issues on UI-7?
Should we use Zwave 2.78 rather than 3.20?
Should we use MIOS routing?
Is there a way to set permanent maual/static routes in UI7?
Can I manually edit a file, routing table via SSH?

Is there another more relaible brand out there?
Yes Vera is most flexible but one minute its fine and the next its flakey.

Devices come and go, every heal produces different results, routes are wayyy off, it has locked up a couple times, I have had scenes disappear, etc.

I can run a heal and get all devices configured and set up right. I will get the health for all devices at 4/5 stars. Once I get this done I disable “reconfigure” at main zwave screen and disable vera routing since it does a heal at 2am.

Everything works great for hours then later that night or morning my devices are offline again. I can poll and or heal each offline device and they will come back and show 4/5 stars. Hours later I go through the same thing again. This is all with the same 6 devices. Every day for the past 3-4weeks.

I need to set manual routes.

#4

Same thing here. >:(

I meanwhile have three nodes that worked well for years failing to be accessible some weeks after upgrading to UI7. One device has the issue every morning, one every third day and the third one started today with the same symptom. I triggered the service today for the second time.

What helps immediately is a single device healing (Settings - Z-wave Settings - Repair). For a non-batterie-powered device you can change the wait for wakeup to 0. Put the node # in the field, press Go and in a minute your device is responsive again.

What works better for now is setting up manual routing for the device. Here you find how: http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/ZWave_Debugging#Manual_routing

#5

I’ve yet to experience UI7, but manual routing for more than a device or two with very specific needs is usually not a good idea.

Perhaps you should try Z-Wave routing, rather than Vera or manual routing. Try turning off Mios routing and see if your network improves. (All this assumes that you have sufficient devices for a complete mesh network.)

[quote=“Moshman, post:3, topic:183897”]Do we have routing issues on UI-7?[/quote]Unknown

Should we use Zwave 2.78 rather than 3.20?
No.
Should we use MIOS routing?
Since you are having issues, you may wish to try it without Mios routing.
Is there a way to set permanent maual/static routes in UI7?
Yes. The advanced tab, just like UI5.
Can I manually edit a file, routing table via SSH?
No.
Is there another more relaible brand out there?
This is the $64,000 question. So far, no one has been able to answer it with yes, without going to a proprietary system that costs > $5,000.
Yes Vera is most flexible but one minute its fine and the next its flakey.

Devices come and go, every heal produces different results, routes are wayyy off, it has locked up a couple times, I have had scenes disappear, etc.

The most frequently reliable solution to these issues is to increase Z-Wave mesh network density by adding intermediate nodes.

#6

In theory yes but Vera ignores good alternative routes to some devices. >:(

#7

Hi all,

This seems basic… can anyone confirm if Manual Routing actually works in UI7 if you see up the variables as discussed here?

http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/ZWave_Debugging#Manual_routing
I have had zero luck with it, applying the variables does not change anything.

This seems like something some should be able to answer…

#8

You’ve resurrected a 12 month old thread full of old information.

If you have an old UI7 version that still offers Vera routing, then manual routes are configurable.

Although I have not tested it, I do not believe that manual routes are utilized with newer UI7 versions that have eliminated Vera routing and rely on the Z-Wave network to figure out routing on it’s own, independently of Vera.

If you’re using a newer Vera UI7 firmware, then you’ll need to add nodes and or relocate Vera to resolve routing issues.

#9

[quote=“Z-Waver, post:8, topic:183897”]You’ve resurrected a 12 month old thread full of old information.

If you have an old UI7 version that still offers Vera routing, then manual routes are configurable.

Although I have not tested it, I do not believe that manual routes are utilized with newer UI7 versions that have eliminated Vera routing and rely on the Z-Wave network to figure out routing on it’s own, independently of Vera.

If you’re using a newer Vera UI7 firmware, then you’ll need to add nodes and or relocate Vera to resolve routing issues.[/quote]

yes, I did and I got a warning when I posted the reply. But it appears the information has changed, and its important to note, correct?

And this new method is a better … how…? Basically, I should just randomly move switches around at night and then wait until the morning to see how it worked out, then repeat until I’m happy… this is an effective use of anyones time?

#10

[quote=“mikoz, post:9, topic:183897”][quote=“Z-Waver, post:8, topic:183897”]You’ve resurrected a 12 month old thread full of old information.

If you have an old UI7 version that still offers Vera routing, then manual routes are configurable.

Although I have not tested it, I do not believe that manual routes are utilized with newer UI7 versions that have eliminated Vera routing and rely on the Z-Wave network to figure out routing on it’s own, independently of Vera.

If you’re using a newer Vera UI7 firmware, then you’ll need to add nodes and or relocate Vera to resolve routing issues.[/quote]

yes, I did and I got a warning when I posted the reply. But it appears the information has changed, and its important to note, correct?

And this new method is a better … how…? Basically, I should just randomly move switches around at night and then wait until the morning to see how it worked out, then repeat until I’m happy… this is an effective use of anyones time?[/quote]

Most of us don’t have routing issues and after the device is added vera just takes over the routing. If there are errors it fixes them during a nightly heal. Most routing problems are created by lack of a mesh network or trying to put z-wave devices to far from the controller. Maybe even a bad device itself. Manual routing has never been a preferred method even when it was an option. I’m sure some people might miss that feature, but I’m sure a poll will show you 95% of people don’t use manual routing or need it.

#11

[quote=“integlikewhoa, post:10, topic:183897”][quote=“mikoz, post:9, topic:183897”][quote=“Z-Waver, post:8, topic:183897”]You’ve resurrected a 12 month old thread full of old information.

If you have an old UI7 version that still offers Vera routing, then manual routes are configurable.

Although I have not tested it, I do not believe that manual routes are utilized with newer UI7 versions that have eliminated Vera routing and rely on the Z-Wave network to figure out routing on it’s own, independently of Vera.

If you’re using a newer Vera UI7 firmware, then you’ll need to add nodes and or relocate Vera to resolve routing issues.[/quote]

yes, I did and I got a warning when I posted the reply. But it appears the information has changed, and its important to note, correct?

And this new method is a better … how…? Basically, I should just randomly move switches around at night and then wait until the morning to see how it worked out, then repeat until I’m happy… this is an effective use of anyones time?[/quote]

Most of us don’t have routing issues and after the device is added vera just takes over the routing. If there are errors it fixes them during a nightly heal. Most routing problems are created by lack of a mesh network or trying to put z-wave devices to far from the controller. Maybe even a bad device itself. Manual routing has never been a preferred method even when it was an option. I’m sure some people might miss that feature, but I’m sure a poll will show you 95% of people don’t use manual routing or need it.[/quote]

In a 150 sq ft area, I have 5 devices. There’s not even a full wall in between them. Pretty sure that’s sufficient. I’ve replaced the plug in nodes with different brands and different models. Sooner or later, the problem comes back. Then it goes away.

Why take away a feature thst was optional that could help? Makes no sense to me.

#12

Wasn’t vera that removed it. It was stigma the zwave chip manufacturer. And like i said it didnt help many. It usually caused more problems for the new guys that thought they were better off over riding all the settings. Same goes for polling times.

150 sqft is a 10x15 room. If you have 5 devices and vera in that same circle and have multiple devices with issues your have won the rare prize. You dont have routing issue as they all can go direct. You have another problen which could even be a bad unit. I have Ge swithces that go direct from 3 rooms or 40 feet way. I also have a detached garage that has over a 40ft gap betwen buildings and vera is 10ft in from that.

#13

[quote=“mikoz, post:9, topic:183897”]And this new method is a better … how…?[/quote] I never said that it was better.

[quote=“mikoz, post:11, topic:183897”]In a 150 sq ft area, I have 5 devices. There’s not even a full wall in between them. Pretty sure that’s sufficient.[/quote]Whay are you 'pretty sure that’s sufficient" when it isn’t working? Obviously, in your house, it is not sufficient.

I've replaced the plug in nodes with different brands and different models. Sooner or later, the problem comes back. Then it goes away.
Swapping devices is not the same as adding more devices. 5 Z-Wave nodes is NOT a good number for a mesh. Add nodes or relocate Vera closer to your existing nodes. There is no alternative to this. You need to increase the intermediate nodes in your mesh in order for it to work.
#14

[quote=“Z-Waver, post:13, topic:183897”][quote=“mikoz, post:9, topic:183897”]And this new method is a better … how…?[/quote] I never said that it was better.

[quote=“mikoz, post:11, topic:183897”]In a 150 sq ft area, I have 5 devices. There’s not even a full wall in between them. Pretty sure that’s sufficient.[/quote]Whay are you 'pretty sure that’s sufficient" when it isn’t working? Obviously, in your house, it is not sufficient.

I've replaced the plug in nodes with different brands and different models. Sooner or later, the problem comes back. Then it goes away.
Swapping devices is not the same as adding more devices. 5 Z-Wave nodes is NOT a good number for a mesh. Add nodes or relocate Vera closer to your existing nodes. There is no alternative to this. You need to increase the intermediate nodes in your mesh in order for it to work.[/quote]

Hi all,

If you’re telling me that 5 notes in 150 sq ft isn’t good enough, it’s shocking to me for a few reasons:

  1. I had an old Intermatic HA07 controller that NEVER ONCE had a problem communicating with this same network. And the controller was further way from the mesh!

  2. Everything I read says 20-40 ft between nodes is good. There are no walls either…

Makes no sense to me.

In any case, I HAVE added other nodes and let the system do the healing overnight… same problem.

#15

[quote=“mikoz, post:14, topic:183897”][quote=“Z-Waver, post:13, topic:183897”][quote=“mikoz, post:9, topic:183897”]And this new method is a better … how…?[/quote] I never said that it was better.

[quote=“mikoz, post:11, topic:183897”]In a 150 sq ft area, I have 5 devices. There’s not even a full wall in between them. Pretty sure that’s sufficient.[/quote]Whay are you 'pretty sure that’s sufficient" when it isn’t working? Obviously, in your house, it is not sufficient.

I've replaced the plug in nodes with different brands and different models. Sooner or later, the problem comes back. Then it goes away.
Swapping devices is not the same as adding more devices. 5 Z-Wave nodes is NOT a good number for a mesh. Add nodes or relocate Vera closer to your existing nodes. There is no alternative to this. You need to increase the intermediate nodes in your mesh in order for it to work.[/quote]

Hi all,

If you’re telling me that 5 notes in 150 sq ft isn’t good enough, it’s shocking to me for a few reasons:

  1. I had an old Intermatic HA07 controller that NEVER ONCE had a problem communicating with this same network. And the controller was further way from the mesh!

  2. Everything I read says 20-40 ft between nodes is good. There are no walls either…

Makes no sense to me.

In any case, I HAVE added other nodes and let the system do the healing overnight… same problem.[/quote]

Maybe you need to wait a few nights without touching things… Let the dust settle.

What nodes are these? I don’t think we ever really figured out what devices your working with today. And how far is vera from the nodes? Do any of the nodes work? What works and what doesn’t?

#16

[quote=“integlikewhoa, post:15, topic:183897”][quote=“mikoz, post:14, topic:183897”][quote=“Z-Waver, post:13, topic:183897”][quote=“mikoz, post:9, topic:183897”]And this new method is a better … how…?[/quote] I never said that it was better.

[quote=“mikoz, post:11, topic:183897”]In a 150 sq ft area, I have 5 devices. There’s not even a full wall in between them. Pretty sure that’s sufficient.[/quote]Whay are you 'pretty sure that’s sufficient" when it isn’t working? Obviously, in your house, it is not sufficient.

I've replaced the plug in nodes with different brands and different models. Sooner or later, the problem comes back. Then it goes away.
Swapping devices is not the same as adding more devices. 5 Z-Wave nodes is NOT a good number for a mesh. Add nodes or relocate Vera closer to your existing nodes. There is no alternative to this. You need to increase the intermediate nodes in your mesh in order for it to work.[/quote]

Hi all,

If you’re telling me that 5 notes in 150 sq ft isn’t good enough, it’s shocking to me for a few reasons:

  1. I had an old Intermatic HA07 controller that NEVER ONCE had a problem communicating with this same network. And the controller was further way from the mesh!

  2. Everything I read says 20-40 ft between nodes is good. There are no walls either…

Makes no sense to me.

In any case, I HAVE added other nodes and let the system do the healing overnight… same problem.[/quote]

Maybe you need to wait a few nights without touching things… Let the dust settle.

What nodes are these? I don’t think we ever really figured out what devices your working with today. And how far is vera from the nodes? Do any of the nodes work? What works and what doesn’t?[/quote]

Hi

I definitely will answer you and appreciate your help. However yesterday there was a Vera firmware update and for the first time ever the flaky nodes are now registering 100% ping success. It’s too early to declare victory but this has not happened before since I started using Vera.

#17

While I’m glad you’re happy with the performance of the new firmware, I’d like to point out that your present anecdotal success is most likely yet another example of the changing RF environment and that you are unlikely to remain happy.

With new versions of UI7 Vera has abandoned Vera routing in favor of letting the Z-Wave network handle it. That means that the firmware in each Z-Wave device, including the Z-Wave dongle in Vera, but not the Vera engine in UI7, will figure out the routing amongst themselves. Therefore, Vera Ltd. would have to change the firmware in the Z-Wave dongle to effect any change related to Z-Wave network communications.

As you will note in the latest UI7 firmware change log, there is no mention of any changes to the dongle firmware. All noted changes have occurred in the web UI or the LUUP engine.

This means that your present improvement is the result of pleasant happenstance or a change in your RF environment and not Vera’s firmware. While I hope that your good fortune holds out, I recommend improving your mesh.

#18

[quote=“Z-Waver, post:17, topic:183897”]While I’m glad you’re happy with the performance of the new firmware, I’d like to point out that your present anecdotal success is most likely yet another example of the changing RF environment and that you are unlikely to remain happy.

With new versions of UI7 Vera has abandoned Vera routing in favor of letting the Z-Wave network handle it. That means that the firmware in each Z-Wave device, including the Z-Wave dongle in Vera, but not the Vera engine in UI7, will figure out the routing amongst themselves. Therefore, Vera Ltd. would have to change the firmware in the Z-Wave dongle to effect any change related to Z-Wave network communications.

As you will note in the latest UI7 firmware change log, there is no mention of any changes to the dongle firmware. All noted changes have occurred in the web UI or the LUUP engine.

This means that your present improvement is the result of pleasant happenstance or a change in your RF environment and not Vera’s firmware. While I hope that your good fortune holds out, I recommend improving your mesh.[/quote]

Hi,

Well… I’ll be pleased if it stays that way.

I only casually looked at the realease notes, but, to be honest, it’s hard for me to tell if the change could be there that affects me. What I can say, so far, is that nodes have been mis-behaving EVERY DAY for a month are now working perfectly. Seems like too much of a coincidence to ignore, but I’ll definitely check it daily for the next several days.

Also, I was having problems with the Denon plugin… that’s now fixed too.