If my Kwikset locks are working intermittently in terms of activating the locking mechanism and polling, we are therefore having a repeating issue OR beaming issue? Along those lines, if my GE/Jasco switches are capable of repeating, are they capable of repeating an encrypted signal?
Frichter09: I can’t tell if I have a “a” version on my switches, however, I will try and manually set the routing for the Kwikset locks and see if that improves my locks’ performance.
You have to pull the switches & look at the back to see if they are version a/b/neither.
GE/Jasco switches that have a version ending with “a” or “b” will support talking to a Kwikset lock. (Don’t get confused right now in beaming vs encrypted, that would be a whole different thread!)
For now, I’d try moving Vera to be close to the device, and see if things work better.
I believe you can force the manual direct route by setting it to “0” under the “Device options” tab.
[quote=“PurdueGuy, post:20, topic:171436”][quote=“frichter09, post:7, topic:171436”]Be careful when it comes to beaming. This does not necessarily mean the devive is capable of repeating ENCRYPTED signals.
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Flo[/quote]This does not seem to match what I have read. Many devices can repeat. But not many devices can “beam” messages. Beaming refers to being able to “wake up” a battery device, to send it a signal. One of the discussions I’d read before is here: http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,7479.msg47796.html#msg47796[/quote]
From what I understand beaming is the capability of a device to wake another one up, as you mentioned in the post. But then again, there is a difference between encrypted and non-encrypted messages.
This is an official MCV statement:
If you plan to use a z-wave door lock you should know that Vera communicates with the locks with encrypted signals. This limits the signal to about 20-25ft. Not all devices can relay this encrypted signal. You can use special light switches to increase this signal. When you buy such devices make sure you ask the vendor if they can relay encrypted signals.
UPDATE: Tried manual routing using my GE/Jasco switches as a “repeater”. Lock activation and polling still do not work reliably. It works maybe 60-70% of the time, about the same reliability as me leaving Vera with auto routing.
Going to move my VeraLite unit downstairs so that it is literally 5 ft from two of my Kwikset locks and 35 ft from my 3rd lock but still line of sight…
It is my understanding that beaming is the ability of a node to relay a message to a battery-operated node that listens frequently (as opposed to always, which would drain the batteries quickly). The feature is available with later versions of the Z-Wave firmware embedded in the node.
@dj2020 reported [tt]2,97[/tt] or version 2.97 for the GE switch; which would indicate it supports beaming.
Alternatively, @Ap15e’s LSI plug-in will decode the Z-Wave information byte that contains the beaming flag. See screenshot on the plug-in page.
I’d think encryption refers to the security command class, and allows for (certain) command classes to be communicated securely. Presumably only the message payload is encrypted, not the entire frame, so the frames can traverse any Z-wave network?
ANOTHER UPDATE: After setting up my VeraLite downstairs, located 5 ft from two of my Kwikset locks and 35 ft away from the 3rd lock but still within line of sight, and testing the locks for about 30 mins (and driving my wife crazy), I’ve found that the locks work 100% of the time with the correct status reporting. There is even less of a delay on the lock/unlock status report compared to when the VeraLite was located upstairs in the closet.
When I view the AutoRoute numbers on each of my 3 locks, it shows that all routes are good, none of them fail, and they all have an overall lower latency number than when the VeraLite was upstairs in the closet. So perhaps the VeraLite in the closet DOES attenuate the encrypted Kwikset signals too much. Right now, most of the auto routes do involve my GE/Jasco switches. Any other theories?
I will keep testing and keep you guys posted. Any ideas on how I’m going to connect to my alarm panel/AD2USB when my VeraLite is no longer in the alarm panel closet?
@DJ2020, I am not sure where to go from here.
You can try a Evolve dimmer or lamp module, get a second Vera for downstairs (probably overkill), or use a very long wire to connect the unit to your alarm panel?
Would this solve your problem? I think it is a network interface for DSC alarm panels. Talked about in this thread. BTW I did add another Vera (via bridged mode) to solve problems like this in my home. Works quite well.
@aschwalb: I have an Ademco Vista alarm panel so I don’t think the DSC network interface will work unless there is a Ademco equivalent that I don’t see on the link. I do like your idea of bridging two Veralites. Once bridged over IP, they act as “one controller” seamlessly?
@frichter09: Are you thinking my GE/Jasco switches were unable to pass along the encrypted Kwikset signals but the Evolve dimmer or lamp modules would be able to? More specifically, you’re talking about Evolve Lamp Modules as well? Not GE lamp modules? Your option would cost less.
I’m definitely not wanting to run some long 4-wire alarm cable from the alarm panel through walls and floor just to get to my VeraLite downstairs.
I do think the GE switches are not capable of repeating an encrypted signal.
Yes, the Evolve DM-15 is also capable of repeating the encrypted signal. I got one myself and it works great with my garage door lock.
If you buy it, make sure you dont buy it at the MCV store. They have older stock and sent me the wrong model… twice…
[quote=“dj2020, post:30, topic:171436”]Thanks for the ideas
@aschwalb: I have an Ademco Vista alarm panel so I don’t think the DSC network interface will work unless there is a Ademco equivalent that I don’t see on the link. I do like your idea of bridging two Veralites. Once bridged over IP, they act as “one controller” seamlessly?[/quote]
Oops sorry thought I read DSC… Anyway I think the bridging is the best anyway since it sound like you are a bit distant with one. Yes you can add via bridging the devices for either unit to both units this way. Then each vera can ‘see’ all devices so you can create scenes that manipulate them. The only caveats are:
Some delay (very minor) when controlling a non local device (i.e. one that is not on my zwave but via bridging)
When creating scenes and adding that scene to an in wall controller (i.e. a leviton zone controller) that controller and scene need to be on the same zwave network/Vera. You can create scenes that control devices on another Vera just that the scene itself and controller need to be local.
I will definitely consider the the bridged VeraLite idea. I’m sure it will make my network much more robust.
@frichtor09: When you installed the Evolve devices as repeaters, you noticed an immediate improvement in your Kwikset lock response and polling? Did you have to manually dictate the node route for your locks? Or did you have your Vera unit autoroute with the Evolve devices?
After you heal the network Vera will use thee EVOLVE automatically.
However, I get more constant results when I force her to use certain routes.
This just works best for me.
I ended up getting two Evolve plugin dimmers to try to reinforcement my zwave network so that the Kwikset encrypted signals are more reliable. I needed the dimmers anyway so it was worth a shot. I also did not want to move my Veralite out of the alarm panel closet because I did not want to run a long 4-wire cable to connect to my Vista alarm panel to the Vera. It also wasn’t feasible connecting the Veralite to one of my two alarm keypads.
With some experimenting, I found that the placement of the Evolve plugin dimmers is key. The combination of placement of the dimmers AND forcing Vera to use the Evolve units as a node provided the best results. I would say that activation of the locks works almost 100% while correct status is maybe 85-90% accurate. It is better than before but still not 100% activation/polling accurate like when I placed the Veralite right next to the locks. Going for 100% transmission/accuracy seems to be the Holy Grail when it comes to repeating encrypted z wave signals!
I have a feeling going for aschwalb’s suggestion of getting a separate Veralite and bridging it is the way to go for my situation if I want 100% reliability (or close to it). Like everyone else has mentioned, encrypted Kwikset signals are just more susceptible to signal attenuation and degradation.
@frichter09: I think you mentioned you are using one of those Evolve relays to control your garage door. Does it support encrypted signals?
I am not using the evolve relay. I have two Kwikset locks on my main and garage door. But no evolve relay
Good to know that your system works better.
I can control the locks 100% of the time.
The status is 90-95% correct for me, more like 95%. I cant justify buying another Vera for 5% more but thats just my opinion
Anyways,
you could change the polling frequency to get the status corrected if you d like to but this will affect your battery life.
@frichter09: I just confirmed with Evolve that all their products support the passing/repeating of encrypted signs, including their relay. I just installed it along with the Woodsby plugin and a Evergreen sensor for the operation of my garage door.
I had a “duh” moment and realized I can just use my existing in wall cat5 to run my alarm panel 4-conductor wire. This has enabled me to move my Vera Lite and AD2USB units away from the alarm panel closet and closer to my Kwikset locks for better encrypted reception. So far with testing, fingers crossed and knocking on wood, this has provided 100% reliability with activation AND polling of locks.
[quote=“dj2020, post:38, topic:171436”]@frichter09: I just confirmed with Evolve that all their products support the passing/repeating of encrypted signs, including their relay. I just installed it along with the Woodsby plugin and a Evergreen sensor for the operation of my garage door.
I had a “duh” moment and realized I can just use my existing in wall cat5 to run my alarm panel 4-conductor wire. This has enabled me to move my Vera Lite and AD2USB units away from the alarm panel closet and closer to my Kwikset locks for better encrypted reception. So far with testing, fingers crossed and knocking on wood, this has provided 100% reliability with activation AND polling of locks.[/quote]
Haha, nice! Good to know it is working for you!!!
Was it difficult to setup the garage door thing? I might be looking into this. Can you control it now or did yous et it up for reporting its status (open/close?)…
