Hunter Douglas DBMZ with 24V polarity reversal sensing relay?

Other Devices & Integrations Garage & Window Covering Control
1

Hi all,

I’m considering using a HD DBMZ motor controller but its current loading seems a little low for my requirements so I wondered if anyone had used one of these with a 24V relay that can sense the polarity reversal and do likewise on it’s outputs?

Any help greatfully received.

2

It seems most relays available are 12V and look like at least one set of contacts is normally closed so I wondered if it makes sense to put two12V relays in series on a 24V power supply (from the DBMZ) wired alterntaley on the outputs so that on no power (not energised) nothing is output?

edit - oh never mind, I’ve found a site with loads of 24V changeover relays on it…

3

;)…and the winner site and product are …?

4

well, the difficulty is deciphering the product jargon as some sites label relays differently but what I think we are looking for here is a DPDT NO relay, which means Dual Pole Dual Throw Normally Open, as opposed to what I first thought which was a Changeover relay, which on most sites means that one set of contacts is left Normally Closed.

Unless you can find a 2 Changeover (or 2 C/O or 2 CO) with 4 NO (4 Normally Open) contacts.

Depending on your load requirements your needs may vary but this one seems to work for me;

http://uk.farnell.com/tyco-electronics-axicom/v23105a5005a201/relay-pcb-dpdt-24vdc/dp/1608361

although you can see that it doesn’t state it is NO (Normally Open), whereas this one might be better;

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SR509.html

I have posted a question to the supplier for more details as I am uncomfortable recommending any of these without verifying first.

5

It appears I am bonkers and such a thing does not exist. :frowning:

I haven’t managed to find ANY relays that will make different contacts based on which polarity is energising the coil.

There’s defintiely a gap in the market here ;D

The only other route it seems is to use some horribly expensive Somfy gear with an RTS to serial/USB converter, which seems horribly complicated to me, especially since I had this really simple and elegant solution in mind.

If anyone else has any solutions I haven’t thought of I’d be very grateful…

6

I have experience with the DBMZ and ABMHZ and several other Z-Wave tubular shade motor controllers (hence the name Shady). Are you trying to cook up your own motorized blinds using unconventional motors? (just trying to understand what you are trying to do)

These motor controllers are for motors with internal mechanical limits, BTW. When you say energize the coil you are talking about the coil in the motor correct? What I don’t understand is the motor controller dictates what polarity is being sent through the coil to operate the DC motor in both directions, but you want the relays/controller to react to a change in the coil polarity? How would that change in polarity occur without the relays doing it?

Sorry if I don’t understand, but I might be able to answer specific questions about the DBMZ.

EDIT: Sorry I didn’t put 2 and 2 together and figure out you were using them for the motorized window motors from your other post. The DBMZ, says it “Allows for total switched load of up to 2 Amps at 27VDC.” I know ESI posts conservative figures and the relays can probably handle more amps.

7

are they relays? are you sure it’s not solid state?

How about 4A ? Not taking into account start up load of course, so I’m a bit dubious about using them to run three motors at once and I don’t want to buy one for each motor, it’s already getting a bit too pricey.

I don’t suppose any of the Somfy units can act as a slave to any 24V driver?

8

Hmmm, I left my DBMZ sample at home as I was doing some testing with Vera. When I get home later I can open it up and read right off of the relay ( I am assuming relays because all of their controllers AC or DC are based off of that design ). Their other non-Z-Wave programmable DC motor controller uses these relays:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Song-Chuan/833H-1C-S-12VDC/?qs=Me3ZrpFQdnzTJnNcagt%252bNw%3D%3D

so it may be that the DBMZ is using them too as the ABMHZ parallels ESI’s other AC motor controllers. I’ll check tonight and post back.

edit: or you can call ESI directly

9

you are a gem. thanks very much.

If it is that relay then I guess the only other limiting factor is how the 24V rail is routed through the device and whether it is via any current limiting components ;D

10

You can easily amplify the signal with two 24 volt relays…I can draw you a diagram if you are interested.
Regards
Tim

11

I had a chance to open the DBMZ and it does have smaller relays, presumably to fit enclosure.
Relay Info:

Zettler
AZ952-1CM-5DSE

According to this .PDF it is medium duty and max amps is 3A:

12

[quote=“TimAlls, post:10, topic:168011”]You can easily amplify the signal with two 24 volt relays…I can draw you a diagram if you are interested.
Regards
Tim[/quote]

Are you sure it’s possible as the output reverses polarity based on the desired direction of the motor

I had a little think about doing that and got a headache!

13

[quote=“shady, post:11, topic:168011”]I had a chance to open the DBMZ and it does have smaller relays, presumably to fit enclosure.
Relay Info:

Zettler
AZ952-1CM-5DSE

According to this .PDF it is medium duty and max amps is 3A:
http://www.azettler.com/pdfs/az951.pdf[/quote]

Thanks Shady, much appreciated. I guess at the worst I could at least get away with just two of them.

Thanks again

14

It is really simple if you have access to a common ground…it only requires two 24 volt relays…if all you have access to is the two wires you will also need two switching diodes to complete the ground circuit.
Shady may have a more professional solution but this can be your backup…let me know and i will post a schematic.
Regards
Tim

15

Here is the circuit I described…
Regards
Tim

16

Thanks Tim,

How would that work if I didn’t have a common ground but just two outputs which could either be positive or negative? Would I have to use diodes? Are ones that can handle 24V difficult to get hold of?

Many thanks,

17

These are six amp general purpose diodes rated at 50 volts.
You will need to tie the relay ground back to the opposite leg to complete the ground. By adding the diode in line (watch the polarity on the diode) you block the reverse polarity from triggering the relay every time.
I can add it to the diagram if that is hard to visualize.
Regards
Tim Alls

18

Thanks Tim,

Much appreciated, I think I understand what you are describing, I’ll probably end up testing everything fifty or so time with a voltmeter before connecting it all together so don’t worry.

Best regards

19

Hi All,

Just in case anyone is interested I think I’m going to go with the HD ABMHZ instead as it has a three wire output which I can use to control two 24V power supplies (found some el cheapos online).

Will let you know how I get on with them when they arrive.

Thanks

20

The ABMHZ is an AC 110V (also available in 220V 50Hz if specified) so it takes 3-Wire AC power in and outputs 4-Wire Bi-Directional AC Power out. I am not sure you can find a way to make that work with 24VDC Motors. It is made to be used with standard 4-Wire tubular motors with internal limits. One of the 110VAC power outs turns the motor clockwise and the other 110VAC power out turns the motor counter-clockwise and each is switch by a relay that cannot be operated independently.

Maybe you can correct the order and get the DBMZ ordered or was it just a typo?