Help me understand instant status

Other Devices & Integrations Lighting & Load Control
1

I’ve only ever had cheap zwave switches and couldn’t afford Levitons with instant status, so I don’t know how it works in practice. When I turn the switch on manually, does the light turn on slow enough for a preconfigured scene to control its eventual dim level? Or rather, am I able to send a scene command fast enough to control final dim level before the light turns on fully.

My use case is fairly typical. I want to be able to press a switch in my bathroom, and have different scenes turn on depending on the time of day. But I want to make sure that if it’s 3 a.m., that light switch won’t turn on to a 3 p.m. brightness level before it has a chance to set the nighttime scene. So how does this work?

2

To do what you want, you need instant status.

With instant status, when you operate the switch, it sends a signal to the vera controller to say that the switch was pressed. This signal can then be used to trigger a scene for any purpose.

Without instant status, when you operate the switch no signal is sent and you have to wait until the next time vera polls the switch to sense its status. At this time, the light status having changed from on to off (is vice versa) can be used to trigger a scene. This can be many seconds. Some switches have an association class which signals vera to say the switch has been operated but it still needs vera to poll to find out what the change was and whilst this can be quick, it is not always so.

With instant status and pleg you can even count the switch presses to add extra functionality.

3

Yes, I understand the difference that instant status provides the switch, and how it differs from polling a switch without instant status. What I don’t understand is how the manual operation differs.

I assume that when the switch is operated manually, it will immediately begin to adjust the lights that are attached to it. I also assume that this process is inherently faster than a signal travelling wirelessly to a controller and then back again.

So what I’m asking is how that local control of the light is affected. Does the switch wait until it hears back from the controller before it begins ramping up the brightness of the attached fixtures? Or do I simply hope and pray that the signal gets to the controller and back before I’m blinded in the middle of the night?

4

Sorry but I can’t answer that as I don’t actually have any instant status switches. Fortunately I have nothing that needs that instant sort of response.

5

No worries. I don’t have any either, so that’s why I’m wondering. This part puzzles me and I haven’t seen it discussed in any topic on instant status that I’ve read. I don’t want to assume how it actually operates.

If it doesn’t work the way I’m thinking, my only option will be to expand the box in the wall and add a scene controller. I really don’t want to do that!

6

A Z-wave switch that directly controls a load (such as a lamp) will effect that load immediately, and without Vera involvement. The difference between “instant status” and non-instant status is when Vera becomes aware of the light being turned on or off. Instant Status is needed if you want to trigger additional actions from Vera when the first light is turned on or off.

7

See, that’s why I asked. I keep seeing people talking about these sorts of use cases, but I didn’t understand how they were possible. I could maybe see programming a very slow ramp up for a switch with instant status, so that by the time the signal got to the controller and back it wouldn’t ramp up too much, but I just don’t think that’ll work and it’s not going to be great to use in practice.

8

I am glad I don’t need them. At night I just don’t turn on bathroom lights (even dim).
I have thought aout using a scene for slowly turning on my bedroom lights on dark mornings but that is a timed scene and nothing to do with button presses

9

I’m fortunate enough that my bedroom and bathroom actually get nearly zero light at night (benefits of living in the suburbs), so when I get up at night I really cannot see anything. But I have to go through a hallway and two doors to get to the toilet, so I’d rather not run into anything on my way :slight_smile:

I’d like to be able to turn a few lights on to 1% dim levels to get the tiniest amount of light into the room. I’d also like to avoid forcing my wife to remember which button on the Minimote on her nightstand she has to press to turn the lights on. It’s so much easier to just press a button on the wall when you go into the bathroom.

Oh well, I’ll try to figure something else out…

10

I only use Leviton switches. And from what I can tell, most of you want to do with your lights can be accomplished with local configuration of Leviton switches, without even the need for a Z-wave controller.

Leviton dimmer switches have lots of different programmable ramp rates, for both on and off. The Vizia RF+ line separates the two, so there are at least forty or fifty different configurations for on-ramp and off-ramp, between instant-on or off to 10 seconds. You can also set the on-brightness level, and whether the switch should default to that level each time you turn it on, or just remember the last brightness level when turned off… this is the crucial feature for your application.

If I understand correctly, you want to have a switch go to full brightness during the day, and only dim at night. Well, for that, you DO need a controller, if you want it to happen automatically.

[ol][li]Manual method: on brightness low, and default switch to that level when turned on. During the day, turn on the light and raise the brightness with your finger. At night, it’s already at the level you want.[/li]
[li]Automatic method, instant status required: on brightness low. During the day, when you turn on the light, have Vera send a command to the switch to go to 100% brightness. It might even feel like a smooth ramp, depending on how many seconds it takes. At night, Vera does not send the command to the light, and it remains at its default low brightness.[/li][/ol]

TL;DR - spring the $40 for a Leviton light switch.

11

What about a childs nightlight plugged into a z-wave wall socket. I use TKB double paddle switches and the second paddle can easily control the socket via association.

12

That’s a good idea. At that point, I just have to make sure response time from my controller is as fast as possible (something I’ve had occasional issues with).

I would go with all Leviton, but I honestly don’t have a need for instant status on the majority of my lights, and the $7-10 difference between Leviton and Linear/2gig gets pretty big when you’re looking to replace 15 lights as I am (I’ve got Intermatics all over and I hate them).

13

Someone a lot smarter than me once said, “I can’t afford to buy cheap stuff.”

14

See, I don’t see it as cheaper. I see it as saving money by not paying for features I don’t need. I know Leviton switches are better made, but the Linear switches have everything I need.

Also, I really dislike the visual style of Leviton switches. Like, a lot.

15

[quote=“DeltaNu1142, post:10, topic:191193”]I only use Leviton switches. And from what I can tell, most of you want to do with your lights can be accomplished with local configuration of Leviton switches, without even the need for a Z-wave controller.

Leviton dimmer switches have lots of different programmable ramp rates, for both on and off. The Vizia RF+ line separates the two, so there are at least forty or fifty different configurations for on-ramp and off-ramp, between instant-on or off to 10 seconds. You can also set the on-brightness level, and whether the switch should default to that level each time you turn it on, or just remember the last brightness level when turned off… this is the crucial feature for your application.

If I understand correctly, you want to have a switch go to full brightness during the day, and only dim at night. Well, for that, you DO need a controller, if you want it to happen automatically.

[ol][li]Manual method: on brightness low, and default switch to that level when turned on. During the day, turn on the light and raise the brightness with your finger. At night, it’s already at the level you want.[/li]
[li]Automatic method, instant status required: on brightness low. During the day, when you turn on the light, have Vera send a command to the switch to go to 100% brightness. It might even feel like a smooth ramp, depending on how many seconds it takes. At night, Vera does not send the command to the light, and it remains at its default low brightness.[/li][/ol]

TL;DR - spring the $40 for a Leviton light switch.[/quote]

For what it’s worth, I use the second method for the light in our master bathroom with a Leviton switch that supports instant status. It generally works well, although it is very clear that the light turns on dim, and then changes to full brightness a second or two later. Unfortunately there is a bit of latency with the switch–>Vera–>switch communications. I’d love to make it faster, but I’m not sure if that’s possible.

16

To each, etc… I have 40-ish of them. They all have instant status, they’re bulletproof, and as far as I’m concerned, look exactly like a normal Decora-style switch, except for the dimmer bar.

17

To each, etc… I have 40-ish of them. They all have instant status, they’re bulletproof, and as far as I’m concerned, look exactly like a normal Decora-style switch, except for the dimmer bar.[/quote]
I guess I don’t like that they look like a decora switch that’s permanently in the on position. It bugs me a little. But yes, to each his/her own.

18

[quote=“Dignan17, post:9, topic:191193”]I’d like to be able to turn a few lights on to 1% dim levels to get the tiniest amount of light into the room. I’d also like to avoid forcing my wife to remember which button on the Minimote on her nightstand she has to press to turn the lights on. It’s so much easier to just press a button on the wall when you go into the bathroom.

Oh well, I’ll try to figure something else out…[/quote]

How about using an Amazon Dash button? I used the thread here ([url=http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,33353.0.html]http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,33353.0.html[/url]) to use one for a single button scene controller for my wife to use to turn all the lights off at the end of the night and it works great once set up. It just triggers a scene on Vera so you could do what you want as well… you just either have to make a new label for it or remember that Mac-N-Cheese (or diapers, laundry soap, or whichever one you get) = turn lights on lol

19

Cooper RF switches support instant status, and direct association and I think are a lot better looking than the Leviton (they are actually a push button that lays flat so no on or off position confusion), you can get the Coopers from Staples and online retailers, but they are a pretty expensive switch if you can’t find them on sale. They also have a handy battery powered switch that you can stick anywere to make a 3-way (4-way… etc) by associating it back to your main switch.

There are a couple of things you can do to make the lighting work the way to want with instant status. For example to you set the default dimmer parameter to always be 1% (when you turn on the light), but if not at night, then trigger a scene on “on” to kick it up to the lighting level you want. Durring the day you will likely see the lights pause as 1% when they come on, then ramp up to whatever you want.

Or you would leave the dimmers to work like they normally do (restore the light level to the last known setting). At night you can have a scene trigger by instant status to dim the light back down to 1% but you are still going to get a flash of bright first as it goes to the last dimmer setting then back to 1%.

Or you can do something sneaky like if your are turning the lights off at night dim them down to 1% then as a second scene turn them off (that will cause the last known level to be 1%. Then when it is morning, have the first on of the day set the level back up.

You will probably need to use PLEG to get everything to work smoothly on those boarder cases when you are going from normal mode to middle of the night mode.

20

I think some other HA systems allow you to send the dim level to switch even when it’s off. So every night at bed time, send that switch to 30% but leave it off. That way if it is turned on, it would come on to 30%. Then have another command sent at wake up to set the level to 100%. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think this is a Vera limitation.