that is interesting because typically all of the neutral wires return to the Neutral bus at the breaker panel. They are all the same neutrals,to put it into your words.
perhaps you misidentified one or more of the wires.
the hot wire is the only independent wire in the circuit, unless you have two panels…
that is interesting because typically all of the neutral wires return to the Neutral bus at the breaker panel. They are all the same neutrals,to put it into your words.
perhaps you misidentified one or more of the wires.
the hot wire is the only independent wire in the circuit, unless you have two panels…[/quote]
You are correct that all the neutrals end up on the N-Buss in the breaker panel. That said the load neutral isn’t always run in the same boxes as the associated switches. Which in my case causes some problems as the instructions for the 45610/ZW2001/ZW2002 state:
[b]Please note:[/b] The Auxiliary switch(s) must be wired to the same Neutral as the Z-Wave enabled switch and the lighting device. It must not be wired to any other Neutral. If multiple Neutrals are tied together in one box, separate the neutrals to preserve the integrity of the circuit.
I finnaly got around my problem by using one of the unused 3 way wires as a neutral and isolating all the neutrals in the primary box… what a pain…
[quote=“ServiceXp, post:22, topic:178521”]
Please note: The Auxiliary switch(s) must be wired to
the same Neutral as the Z-Wave enabled switch and the
lighting device. It must not be wired to any other Neutral. If
multiple Neutrals are tied together in one box, separate the
neutrals to preserve the integrity of the circuit.
I finnaly got around my problem by using one of the unused 3 way wires as a neutral and isolating all the neutrals in the primary box… what a pain…[/quote]
I guess they are saying jump the neutrals directly between the two devices, and not throughout the bus, so you did what they recommended.
...separate the neutrals to preserve the integrity of the circuit.
interesting. maybe there can be noise accumulating on the neutral bus that can affect the signal voltage to the aux switch.
This is also a safety issue. If you cross neutrals, you can end up with a “hot” neutral line, which can be dangerous.
Not sure what that means to “cross neutrals”.
Since (with a single load center) all of your neutral wires are connected at the bus, using neutral A versus neutral B won’t cause a safety issue, but it seems like it may cause a signal issue between the master and the aux switch for this device.
Certainly shorting a hot line to ground (neutral) may do that. 
Current limiting is performed by the breakers (except fuses integral to the connected device, of course).
What I mean by cross neutrals is having a neutral wire that is connected to two different hot leads (and two different breakers). Highly dangerous, and against the electrical code.
You shut off one of the breakers. Turning on a light on the other circuit would cause that neutral wire to suddenly be carrying current. Someone not familiar with the setup and working on that wiring may not be aware of the miss-wiring, and the need to turn off both breakers. Results could be shocking.
Having a common neutral wire for two circuits can also cause a fire. The wires are sized for the expected load on them. However, in this situation, both circuits could be running near their full capacity (and their respective breakers would be happy with their respective current draw). But that neutral would have to carry double the load coming from both circuits. This overload could cause that wire to melt, causing a fire.
I could go on, but the plain fact is you need to have a completely separate neutral wire for each circuit.
I couldn’t figure out what you meant by ‘crossing neutrals’.
It is not at all uncommon to distribute many loads through a grouping of several neutral wires, that is the opposite of what you just described… dividing the current across the several conductors. You see this all the time, particularly in lighting, and why so many DIYers that hook up these kinds of switches get confused when they see three or four white wires bundled together!
Hello,
I am trying to convert a multiway (4 switches) lighting to Zwave. Earlier in this thread, Zwaver posted a 4way wiring diagram.
In that diagram, the primary Z-wave switch is connected directly to the incoming source and outgoing load. It is possible that the existing wiring in my house, which I want to convert to Zwave switches, has a similar arrangement (source and load before the switches), in which case the existing wiring would be straight forward to adapt to the Zwave.
However, after studying the possibilities for “conventional” multi-way wiring, it seems it is also possible for the existing switches to be located between the source and the load (i.e. source->switch->switch->switch->load), or that the source and the load come between the switches (see below. I know these pics are only with 3 switches, but 4 can be configured similarly with adaptation).
Do you have any guidance as to how I determine the details of my existing wiring to see whether the primary is actually connected to the incoming source and outgoing load, or if it is different?
And if I have an alternate existing arrangement, are there other ways to configure the Zwave multi-way wiring to match, or is there only one way to configure the Zwave wiring (i.e. with the source and load before the switches)?
Thanks,
Jim
[quote=“gymshoe, post:28, topic:178521”]However, after studying the possibilities for “conventional” multi-way wiring, it seems it is also possible for the existing switches to be located between the source and the load (i.e. source->switch->switch->switch->load), or that the source and the load come between the switches (see below. I know these pics are only with 3 switches, but 4 can be configured similarly with adaptation).[/quote]There are a lot of possible configurations. Don’t allow possible scenarios to confuse or deter you, yet. However, the picture that you posted would not lend itself to the GE wiring scheme and would require reconfiguration, if not running additional wires.
Do you have any guidance as to how I determine the details of my existing wiring to see whether the primary is actually connected to the incoming source and outgoing load, or if it is different?A voltage detector or multimeter is the way to find the line source. Finding the load may be a little more difficult, but it is usually evident when you know which is line.
And if I have an alternate existing arrangement, are there other ways to configure the Zwave multi-way wiring to match, or is there only one way to configure the Zwave wiring (i.e. with the source and load before the switches)?There is no Z-Wave wiring. Different manufacturers use different schemes. This thread is referring to the GE/Jasco n-way Z-Wave switches. There is no alternate way for these switches. Line and load must go to the main switch. From there a neutral and traveler must go to each auxiliary/remote switch. There are times when the line is at one end of the switch chain(circuit) and the load is at the other. IN this case you can use the black form the traveler bundle to bring the load back to the main switch. See the diagram below.
Edit: Added forgotten diagram.
Thanks, that clarifies things for me.
You mentioned “see diagram below”, but I don’t see a diagram. Could you try posting again?
cheers,
jim
Your diagram looks pretty simple and doable. But I am having trouble expanding to 4 switches like in my situation (see diagram). Is there an easy way to get the load back to the primary switch in this situation (at the other end of the switch-chain), cause I don’t see it (although I am pretty newbie)? Seems like I would have to run another wire…
thanks,
jim
Yes. You would simply join and daisy chain the unused black wires in each of the boxes until the load(black) was back to the primary switch. I suppose you could do it the other way and put the master at the load and then bridge the blacks to bring the line to that box.
Ah, clever.
Thanks!
jim
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