GE 45613 installing 3 way dimmer Aux but have NO NEUTRAL. Can it work?

There’s been a laundry list of issues with this 3 way dimmer kit. From bad directions to configuring.
Which I haven’t gotten to yet. The box w here I’m putting in the auxiliary switch only has 3 wires plus the ground. Red white and Black. The original set up had the red & white as the travellers, n the black was the common.
The primary dimmer with the LED, has 2 sets 1 black & white
( line in) and the 2nd set of wires has 3 which assuming goes down to the other box (red white & black)
I have the line in connected to the black and the load to lamp to blue. I can operate the primary dimmer fully. But I’ve tried a few different scenarios but cannnot get this to functions.
In the aux switch box I have 3 wires … on the switch itself I have just the red/white & yellow. It will not work without the black hooked up. I can only assume its how im hooking up the primary switch. Again I have no neutral in the aux box just the red white n black … should it have another wire? Or no
Helpppp! LOL

Draw a quick wiring diagram of what you got going on. You will need netural in the aux box.

If you have an un used wire or un needed wire going from one box to the other. Then you can use that to back feed the neutral to the other box.

The AUX box only needs the traveler and netural wire from what I remember. So 2 wires. If you have 3 then you should be able to disconnect it on both ends (one in each box) and re purpose it to your needs.

EDIT:

I’m also unsure in the pics above is that white and black twisted together the power coming in (LINE) or going out (LOAD)?

As always, you must positively identify all wires in your circuit, their location and their function. Wire color is not an adequate identifier.

That said, your pictures suggest that you have a 2 wire switch loop with a 3-way at the end of the loop.

It sounds like you have one of the more rare 45613 kits that contains a 45607 dimmer, where the master dimmer utilizes a neutral wire. It is very surprising to me that the switch works at all, as you describe. I suspect that while it might seem to work manually, that it will fail to work via Z-Wave after it has been turned off. Regardless, this 3-way kit will not work with your switch loop type circuit. There are not enough wires.

Most 45613 dimmer kits come with the 45612 dimmer(ZW3003). The 45612 dimmer does not utilize a neutral and can work(stand alone) with a switch loop type circuit such as yours. However, without a neutral, you will still not be able to get 3-way use as the auxiliary switch requires a neutral.

You’re left with two options for this circuit:

  1. Run additional wire between the light and the switch.

  2. Use your existing standard 3-way switches and a Aeon Labs Aeotec Z-Wave Micro Dimmer, 2nd Edition (DSC27103-ZWUS) installed in the light. Be sure that you understand that this will only allow for local On/Off control. Dimming control will have to be via Z-Wave or you will need to replace the standard switches with momentary type switches.

Thanks guys . I will draw a diagram and and show you what I have going on.
I have the primary working. when I hook up the aux I cannot get it to function correctly. When I add the yellow( at primary to the primay box) it dims down.
ok will sketch it today
Thanks guys

Haven’t gotten around to drawing it up yet but tweaked a few pictures

Notes …when I hook up the red wire from the primary switch it dims it out.
I’m sure its me… and not wired correctly lol
Also the black wire that goes into the auxiliary switch completes the lamp circuit and has to be connected. I think this is where I’m having the trouble. 3 wires in and only 2 on the switch

See my previous post. Your diagram confirms my suspicions about it being a switch loop. You cannot use this kit without running more wires between the light and the master switch.

Ughh Thanks ZWaver
Not saying you’re incorrect but
CAN ANYONE ELSE CONFIRM THIS?
I have to run another wire cuz its a “switch loop”
Now its a “switch loop” because it completes the circuit in a different box? Is that right?
… Why does this always happen to me. What about a different dimmer switch or kit . Is there one out there that will work for this set up
Thanks
jake

[quote=“imowt, post:6, topic:183602”]Notes …when I hook up the red wire from the primary switch it dims it out.
I’m sure its me… and not wired correctly lol
Also the black wire that goes into the auxiliary switch completes the lamp circuit and has to be connected. I think this is where I’m having the trouble. 3 wires in and only 2 on the switch[/quote]

Looking at your diagram I see a white and black coming into the main switch. Black acroding to your diagram looks like hot going out to the light blub? And the white is?

EDIT: if white is the hot comming in, then yes you are out of luck not having a Neutral in either the main or the AUX box. At first reading the title I thought the only problem was getting the Neutral from the main box to the AUX as it says no neutral in aux box.

Netrual is big fro z-wave as it needs power to send and receive z-wave signals no matter if the light is on or off. Yes some dimmer switches have only 2 wires but they are going away as they are very picky if they work right. Need a certain number and type of bulbs in the circuit to use them. Then they buzz and make noise when dimmed. Newer GE or Jasco now has 3 wires even for the dimmers to make them more reliable. But this is going to make problems for people that have older houses and no neutral running down to the switch box.

Alternative right now for you is if the first light has the power and the wires from the switch going into that box. You can install an Aeon Labs Aeotec Z-Wave Micro Smart Energy Dimmer in the light box and keep the same wall switches you have now.

Ughh Thanks ZWaver
Not saying you’re incorrect but
CAN ANYONE ELSE CONFIRM THIS?
I have to run another wire cuz its a “switch loop”
Now its a “switch loop” because it completes the circuit in a different box? Is that right?
… Why does this always happen to me. What about a different dimmer switch or kit . Is there one out there that will work for this set up
Thanks
jake

Well you have an older house, and your probley going to run into this with other switches around the house too.

There is No dual 3 way switch that doesn’t need neutral.

Only switches that don’t need a neutral are 2 wire dimmers (single dimmer not a 3 way setup).

All on and off switches require neutral.

Now don’t all laugh at once ( dumb question ) but by the pictures & diagram I posted is it true that I don’t have a neutral wire? Does this question even make sense?
And do I have to have a neutral in both boxes.
I’m thinking… if I need just a neutral in the primary box maybe I could run a separate line. If its even possible

[quote=“imowt, post:12, topic:183602”]Now don’t all laugh at once ( dumb question ) but by the pictures & diagram I posted is it true that I don’t have a neutral wire? Does this question even make sense?
And do I have to have a neutral in both boxes.
I’m thinking… if I need just a neutral in the primary box maybe I could run a separate line. If its even possible[/quote]

I won’t laugh, but I don’t want to see you get hurt either.

What I see (without being there or having a meter to test) is you have a hot wire coming in the first box and a hot wire exiting the first box. white and black wires. That’s all you have. So there is no way you have a neutral and a hot coming into even the first box as you have to have a hot out. And you only have 2 wires.

So no you don’t have a neutral in either box.

Have this exact problem too. Seems the switch config is wired like this:

Mine looks exactly like this, but I think yours has the colors reversed coming from the light to the first box.

Unfortunately, the neutral ends at the light. I used a GE 2-wire dimmer since its an incandescent chandelier and just said forget the 3-way for now. Hooked the hot wire to the line terminal and the other wire to the load terminal and stuffed the 14-3g wire into the back of the box and installed a blank plate over the other switch box.

As a request to anyone wiring a house: run the power into the switch box and then go to the light. Don’t wire power to the light itself. That way you have a neutral at each switch box.

[quote=“PromptCritical, post:14, topic:183602”]Have this exact problem too. Seems the switch config is wired like this:

Mine looks exactly like this, but I think yours has the colors reversed coming from the light to the first box.

Unfortunately, the neutral ends at the light. I used a GE 2-wire dimmer since its an incandescent chandelier and just said forget the 3-way for now. Hooked the hot wire to the line terminal and the other wire to the load terminal and stuffed the 14-3g wire into the back of the box and installed a blank plate over the other switch box.

As a request to anyone wiring a house: run the power into the switch box and then go to the light. Don’t wire power to the light itself. That way you have a neutral at each switch box.[/quote]

In this picture you can install an Aeon Labs Aeotec Z-Wave Micro Dimmer, 2nd Edition (DSC27103-ZWUS) up in the light or load box. You have hot and neutral in there and you have 2 wires runing down to the switch. That was one of our suggestions earlier.

[quote=“integlikewhoa, post:15, topic:183602”][quote=“PromptCritical, post:14, topic:183602”]Have this exact problem too. Seems the switch config is wired like this:

Mine looks exactly like this, but I think yours has the colors reversed coming from the light to the first box.

Unfortunately, the neutral ends at the light. I used a GE 2-wire dimmer since its an incandescent chandelier and just said forget the 3-way for now. Hooked the hot wire to the line terminal and the other wire to the load terminal and stuffed the 14-3g wire into the back of the box and installed a blank plate over the other switch box.

As a request to anyone wiring a house: run the power into the switch box and then go to the light. Don’t wire power to the light itself. That way you have a neutral at each switch box.[/quote]

In this picture you can install an Aeon Labs Aeotec Z-Wave Micro Dimmer, 2nd Edition (DSC27103-ZWUS) up in the light or load box. You have hot and neutral in there and you have 2 wires runing down to the switch. That was one of our suggestions earlier.[/quote]

Good to know if I run across this again, which I probably will. I already had the dimmer lying around since I found it didn’t play well with LED lights.