Fan/Light and outlet control and bathroom - Opinions needed

Other Devices & Integrations Lighting & Load Control
1

I little info/history:

Ok, so I have 3 bedrooms in my house that have 2 gang boxes in them next to the door. I’m pretty sure 1 only has room for a 2 gang box, 1 has only room for a 2 gang due to furniture, and the other I could add 3 gang, but at this point why not do all 3 bedrooms the same. So, Originally when I bought the house the rooms all had 1 switch that controlled an outlet somewhere in the room. They did have fans, but 1 had the power line run to an outlet and the other two were wired in the attic to an outlet above the old garage (then an office and now a new master suite). So when I bought the house, I wired the fans correctly (after shocking myself on 1 because I turned off the power to the room and the fan was still live!) so that they are run to the switch. This is why I now have 2.

I also have a bathroom in one of the bedrooms that has only room for a 2 gang box, but controls 3 loads (exhaust fan, main lights, shower lights). I currently have a timer for the fan and a dual switch for the lights. I would like to control all 3 via z-wave as this will be a 5y/o’s room now.

Ok, so now on to my thoughts that I want opinions on:

Bedrooms - I don’t think I need to really have a switch to control the outlets in those rooms. In 2 of them the outlets are in places that don’t really make sense for the rooms (they aren’t next to where you would put the bed) and honestly, we depend more on the overhead lights in those rooms now than any lamps (which could either use lamp dimmer modules or z-wave outlets). So for those outlets, I think I can just tie them to power and be ok.

The fans are another issue. I know there are no “good” ways to control both. I could go with the fanLinc, but this needs to sort of be a rush job so I think I’m gonna stick with z-wave. I know I could do the leviton fan controller, but at this point I have to ask myself if it’s really worth the cost? Normally in these rooms we just keep the fans either full on or off. I’m sure there is a chance in the future that we could change the fan speed, but at that point, does it “really” need to be automated? I’m thinking a simple switch could work and if there is a z-wave fan controller for less than $120 (what the leviton costs on Amazon) I could go that route then and save some money now. So basically is this an acceptable approach? Are others just leaving out control of the fan speed and doing this?

My last question is whether or not I should use a switch for the fan or if I should one of the leviton scene controllers with local load (I know this increases the cost, but allows us to have some “scenes” for the kids room like “sleep” or “wake”, etc). I know these can be troublesome to install, but thought it might still be worth the trouble.

Bathroom:

This is the really tricky one. I don’t have much room to work with and I have 3 loads I need to control. One of the lights I would like to be a dimmer
(actually both I would prefer a dimmer, but I just don’t think that’s gonna be possible right now). I’ve considered 2 dimmers and then a micro switch, but I’m 100% sure that is going to over crowd that 2 gang box and I jut don’t think it’s worth it. I don’t think I have access to the fan’s box to put the dimmer in there either (Though I could check if this would work).

So the way I see it, it leaves me with this option:. Put in a dimmer for one of the lights (more for a “late night bathroom breaks”, so most likely the main lights), and then put in one of the leviton 2 switch scene controllers with local load control. I don’t really need the local load control for the fan, but I have to be able to control it somehow.

Recap - So my points I really need thoughts on are the following:

[ol][li]Should just local load control (not fan control) be enough for a ceiling fan? Basically depending on the pull chain to change speeds.[/li]
[li]Would it be beneficial to use one of the Leviton scene controllers in the kids’ room with local control for the fan so that we can set off scenes from those rooms?[/li]
[li]Does my solution for the bathroom seem adaquate? Are there any other suggestions for this? (Serious, the 2 gang box in this location is SNUG fit at best!)[/li][/ol]

I am of course open to any other options any one may have.

2

Holy information overload, Batman! My head is spinning and I still don’t know what’s what.

Bedrooms
Switched outlets are for lamps. If you don’t need the switched outlets, there’s no problem with wiring them as always powered.

You can absolutely use a simple On/Off switch for a ceiling fan, standard or Z-Wave. If you don’t need to adjust the speed from the switch, then avoiding the $120 Leviton fan switch is a good idea. But, if you frequently adjust the speed, the convenience of the Leviton may be desirable.

The Leviton VRCS2-MRZ 2-Button Scene Controller with Switches would allow you to control your ceiling fan and the light(On/Off), as well as other Z-Wave devices. It it is a good choice for your scenario, but price may be an issue.

Bathroom
This is really going to depend on what you want. However, consider using microswitch dimmers for both lights and a microswitch for the vent fan. You could use momentary switches like these Pass & Seymour Garbage Disposal Switch to provide local dimming control of the microdimmer, if you want. Or you could use the Leviton VRCS2-MRZ 2-Button Scene Controller with Switches again, without the local loads.

Also remember that you don’t necessarily have to put the microswitches in the vent fan or the gang box. Assuming that you can get to the fan/light cables in the ceiling/attic, you can install a junction box(s) up there and put your microswitches up there. Just be sure to not encase them in all steel boxes.

3

100% agree.

It is really easy to justify the savings of turning off a fan in an unoccupied bedroom, especially with a $40 GE switch. Trying to put value to adjusting the fan speed without the chain… a little tougher. The only real issue I have is when guests turn the fan off with the chain… its tough getting it back on with a zwave switch, and vera doesn’t know that happened. The other side is that it is indeed off, not using electricity. If someone wants it back on, well they pull the chain. (unless your automation shut it off!!!).

Fans are troublesome in my house.

4

I thought a standard zwave switch couldn’t handle the load for a fan. I could have sworn I’ve heard stories of killing a switch by trying.

5

ON/OFF switches are fine.

The problem is when folks wire a dimmer into their 3 speed fans.

6

Sorry about that…LOL. I jsut wanted to be thorough :slight_smile:

[quote=“Z-Waver, post:2, topic:180439”]Bedrooms
Switched outlets are for lamps. If you don’t need the switched outlets, there’s no problem with wiring them as always powered.

You can absolutely use a simple On/Off switch for a ceiling fan, standard or Z-Wave. If you don’t need to adjust the speed from the switch, then avoiding the $120 Leviton fan switch is a good idea. But, if you frequently adjust the speed, the convenience of the Leviton may be desirable.[/quote]

I think I’ll do that except maybe my office (I’m not sure yet because I think I’d like the scene control). I work in my office 8-16 hours a day and depending on the weather (if the windows are open or not and how hot/cold it is) I change the speed of the fan frequently, but it’s not like I couldn’t reach up and change it manually either. Lot to consider. The kids however, have always kept them on hight the whole time they’ve lived in this house, so I don’t think I need the extra expense there (or better yet, giving it up for the scene controller).

The Leviton VRCS2-MRZ 2-Button Scene Controller with Switches would allow you to control your ceiling fan and the light(On/Off), as well as other Z-Wave devices. It it is a good choice for your scenario, but price may be an issue.

[quote=“Z-Waver, post:2, topic:180439”]Bathroom
This is really going to depend on what you want. However, consider using microswitch dimmers for both lights and a microswitch for the vent fan. You could use momentary switches like these Pass & Seymour Garbage Disposal Switch to provide local dimming control of the microdimmer, if you want. Or you could use the Leviton VRCS2-MRZ 2-Button Scene Controller with Switches again, without the local loads.

Also remember that you don’t necessarily have to put the microswitches in the vent fan or the gang box. Assuming that you can get to the fan/light cables in the ceiling/attic, you can install a junction box(s) up there and put your microswitches up there. Just be sure to not encase them in all steel boxes.[/quote]

I actually don’t have access to the attic space (at least not easily). To install the fan and shower lights, I actually cut a 2’x2’ hole in the ceiling and then installed everything and dry-walled it up (the fan was within the 2’x2’ space). I’ve considered putting a temporaryish attic access in that room due to how hard it is to access it, but I haven’t done that yet.

So I think that my only option for now (Without opening up drywall again) is to use the gang box. Perhaps sometime in the future I can change this out. I think I should just stick with the dimmer and 2 load leviton controller. At least this way I can free up one of the switches later for a scene if/when I add a humidity sensor in there.

I just had another thought. I bought those bRightSwitches! I really wish they would ship now because 3 of them were for these rooms. I think I’ll buy the dimmers and then either sell them later or user them somewhere else.

7

100% agree.

It is really easy to justify the savings of turning off a fan in an unoccupied bedroom, especially with a $40 GE switch. Trying to put value to adjusting the fan speed without the chain… a little tougher. The only real issue I have is when guests turn the fan off with the chain… its tough getting it back on with a zwave switch, and vera doesn’t know that happened. The other side is that it is indeed off, not using electricity. If someone wants it back on, well they pull the chain. (unless your automation shut it off!!!).

Fans are troublesome in my house.[/quote]

For my fans, I plan on removing the chains in the kids’ room or making them really short. I really wish there was a better solution, but I just don’t have the time to go the fanLinc and keypadlink and worry about whether or not to use Alsteon or go the ISY route.

I with Aeon made a micro fan controller. That would be the best solution right there (coupled with a scene controller or just “automate” it).

8

Perhaps there is an Arduino solution in there somewhere. I’d have to tear a capacitor stepped wall controller to figure that one out.

It would be a good nut to crack, for a lot of us.

9

So I’ve done some “Soul searching” and I’ve come to a decision. I’ve done a cost analysis of going partially Insteon (fanlinc/keypadlinc) over continuing 100% z-wave. I have a total of 7 ceiling fans that I want to automate in the house. All but 1 has a light fixture on it. If I go with z-wave the cost is:

[ul][li]about the same as Insteon if I just do a z-wave dimmer and a z-wave switch (requires 2 gang and has less functionality than the Insteon approach (no fan speed control and no controller))[/li]
[li]about $200 more to do a z-wave dimmer and a fan controller (requires 2 gang and has less functionality than the Insteon approach (no controller) )[/li]
[li]about $600 more to do a z-wave dimmer and a scene controller with local load control (requires 2 gang and has less funtionality than the Insteon approach (no fan speed control) )[/li][/ul]

That is for the total cost for all 7 fans. Obviously with having to get an ISY and PLM, the initial cost to only do a few fans will be more expensive. However, with the Insteon I get:

[ul][li]I only have to use 1 gang (fanlink is in the ceiling with the fan). I can either blank off the other gang or put another controller in it.[/li]
[li]The KeypadLinc not only can control the fan and lights WITH dimming control, I can do it in a way to still free up some of the buttons for other scenes. This is because the keypadLink and the ISY can distinguish between 1 press, double press, and long press (on, dim to 100%, dim up or off, dim down to minimum, dim down respectively). This means with a 8 key pad, I still have 4 buttons to use as scenes. *I believe this is how it works, if not, I still get 8 buttons to control the fan/lights[/li]
[li]The KeypadLinc also includes a local dimmer if I ever need it (for instance, I had plans on adding some kind of rececessed lighting in these rooms for general lighting).[/li]
[li]With Garett’s ISY plugin, I can control all of this from the Vera (Well, some stuff will be done on the ISY, but the VERA will remain my main controller).[/li][/ul]

Other considerations:

[ul][li]I will likely buy 1 Insteon normal dimmer and try it out around the house. I like my Levitons, but I like that with the Insteon I can set the start dim level based on the time of day (without having to turn the light on at all). I’m not sure if I really need to replace all my switches. If I ultimately replace 1 normal dimmer with Insteon, I may replace them all just to keep it all uniform throughout the house. That sucks because I have a lot of money tied up in Leviton switches, but I suppose I can sell them for a small loss and still come out ahead in the long run.[/li]
[li]I think that by merging these two technologies, I can get the best of both worlds. If someone would release a z-wave fan controller like the fanLinc, I would likely just stick to z-wave, but alas, I just don’t see it happening soon.[/li][/ul]

So that is my final decision. It’s going to have a bigger learning curve, but I think it’s the best way to go for the fans/light combos. For the bathroom, I think I am going to stick with the dimmer and the 2 load Leviton scene controller as that is the best way for me to control those 3 loads. Another option will be to use the Leviton scene controller for the 2 loads (fan and shower lights) and then pop in a keypadLinc (which includes dimming a local load) and also get some scene control in that bathroom as well (turn on the fan for 5, 10 15 mintues, light/dim control, etc).

10

Just wanted to add this. With the Insteon approach, I will keep 1 gang open for my bRightSwitches in the bedrooms when they come in (even if they don’t control a local load). This will leave me with 2 Unused dimmers in each bedroom for possible future use.

I’ve also considered replacing my dining room ceiling fan controller (one of the 7) and since it’s switch is right next to one of the kitchen switches (3-way), I am considering doing the kitchen in Insteon with 2 keypadLincs. One will control the fanLinc and kitchen lights (with it’s local dimmer), and the other just the kitchen lights and perhaps some scene control. This will also leave me with yet another unused local dimmer in the kitchen that i can use for something else.

Can I say that I’m just loving how this Insteon is working out? I like the vera and the z-wave locks and all that, but I really wish some of the z-wave manufacturers were looking at how Insteon handles some of this.