I know it’s been discussed before… well not as much as I would like it. My vera lite is pretty unreliable. It detects some locks, sometimes not, some switches works sometimes, the same one don’t other times… well, I am considering other system (and I have been trying, and trying for 2 years to get it right… ). The only thing I did not try is to add an external antenna to my vera lite. Is it possible? And how? I’ve read some (really undetailed) ways to do that… seems possible… What do you think? My next step is to try insteon… really, I am getting frustrated with Vera (which, on paper, look so great!).
Thank you. Of course, I have seen this post before. I have searched the forum and the net before I posted mine. I don’t even know if going the extra effort to make an external antenna would help. By example, I’ve added and extra lock on one door the other day and my entire system was affected. Another lock was no longer reachable, a door ensor was no more there, and an external switch was not working anymore. After trying to repair, with no real success, I had to start back from sratch with all my units… Excluding the new lock… So hours of works to be back where I was. And this happens regularly when I add a new unit (I have my system for years now). Most of my locks works “out of the network” because they usually mess up everything. I am lucky that my main door works (it is the only one for now). For the lights, they sometimes disapear from the network, and I have to include them back regularly too.
an external antenne is of no use as the devices it connects to need a bigger antenne as well then.
perhaps you can share your z-wave settings ? there in the UI5 setup > z-wave settings
@Da_JoJo - With respect, I must disagree. Radio frequency(RF) physics do not have such a requirement. Communication between two devices can certainly improve if a half wave antenna(external Vera) is used to communicate with a quarter wave antenna(Z-Wave lock). The linked thread has numerous confirmations of improved communication quality and distance with the use of the external antenna.
@Cellule - Your description sounds like an issue with routing, especially through devices that do not support “Beaming”, a Z-Wave feature requirement for routing locks to work. I would recommend looking at the routing to see which devices Vera is trying to use to get to the locks. Those devices must support “Beaming” or the communication will fail. Also, remember that because of the way that radio waves bounce around and the RF transparency of different building materials your routing may not follow a path that you expect or that is the shortest physical distance.
Your troubleshooting would likely benefit from using an appliance module (that supports Beaming) as an intermediate routing node, between your Vera and your locks. Using the appliance module allows you to easily change its location so that you can determine the best spot to improve your routing/communication.
Also, remember that each time you move the appliance module or include/exclude devices, that the routing of your Z-Wave network might change. When the routing changes you will need to wait a while(for battery operated devices) and perform a heal or allow 24 hours for the network and Vera to figure out optimal routes.
well since the range is going to be bigger with the external antenne and the receiver device need to talk back to it. if it does not have a bigger antenne it wont be able to overcome the extra range to talk back to the vera…
edit: z-waver you posted while i was typing so i didnt see ur answer… you have a point but for most of the time it would not make that much difference specially on longer ranges . the beaming feature is indeed a better point. most z-wave locks dont have beaming since it has extra security layer which needs the device to speak directly to the vera.
[quote=“Da_JoJo, post:7, topic:176104”]well since the range is going to be bigger with the external antenne and the receiver device need to talk back to it. if it does not have a bigger antenne it wont be able to overcome the extra range to talk back to the vera…
edit: z-waver you posted while i was typing so i didnt see ur answer… you have a point but for most of the time it would not make that much difference specially on longer ranges . the beaming feature is indeed a better point. most z-wave locks dont have beaming since it has extra security layer which needs the device to speak directly to the vera.[/quote]
There is some truth to what you are saying. The bigger antenna increases the transmit gain, thereby increasing the transmit power. But, to a lesser extent, it also increases the receive gain(some say sensitivity). This causes the antenna to better “hear” weak signals. So a single antenna change can improve signal quality in both directions.
it does to some extend yes, but it wont solve this problem he is facing right now. perhaps there is a way to put a bigger antenne in the lock itself ?
edit: i remember the poly-control lock suffered from the same problem. they had metal housing that was dimming the z-wave signal to below standard. they exchanged it for plastics which worked out better… still it is not that good as a the one from vision security which uses the outer metal casing as a antenne… things need to have more thought and trials before marketing this stuff.
more edit: i think you’re better of making the internal antenna of the lock a 2/8 lambda version vs 1/8 lambda. in simple words make it twice as long… simplest way is to unsolder the antenna and solder the longer one on that spot. the rest of the signal problems is solved by taking into account the beaming feature mentioned by z-waver.
I’m interested why you can say for sure it will not solve his problem? I think, that no one can say for sure if it will solve the problem or not - unless testing it. A bigger external antenna will have better reception as well. Think of it as bigger ears. If the ears are big enough in this particular installation - only to try.
I have not done this mod myself, but I have been involved in some radio designs (zigbee) at my previous work, granted I can say that I am far from a specialist. Thinking about it, is your take that the external antennae will saturate the receiver circuit, or bring up the noise floor too high? I have not studied the zwave rf frontend, and don’t even know if it even has a external booster etc.
well when increasing the antenne it also increases the ohmage load on it and perhaps the vera lite is not really designed to handle this extra load. indeed you can allways try n test it and the bigger ears as u call it will certainly help but it needs pinpoint accuracy to work. you should know that being off by half a millimeter will increase the offset and thus cause more noiselevel on the signal. i would like to see though that it works. the lock itself needs direct connection to vera for security reasons and not having beam option that can be utilized.
Sorry - that’s incorrect. Most antennas are designed for a 50 Ohm load, so changing the antenna will generally not change the impedance. A transmitter/receiver will be designed to match into that load (some systems are designed for 75 Ohms, but not so many).
If you buy an antenna that is designed for the correct band, then it will be tuned to provide a 50 Ohm load. If you are just playing around with wire antennas, then you need to ensure that the wire is trimmed to the appropriate wavelength (1/4, 1/2 etc).
I have mounted an external antenna on my vera lite, and noticed a difference. I have also fitted a bigger antenna on my Rfxcom with a great improvement on my LightwaveRF devices and on x10 devices, so for me it was worth the little money and effort. I recommend the upgrade. Easy and cheap.
i meant the z-ohmage but yes overall it would work to have a bigger antenne but it will also void waranty and one could consider to buy a vera 3 instead. bigger antenna will also pick up more noise and other resonant frequencies . could also try something like this Geodesic dome frequency explained . imho it should not be neccesary to have to use bigger antennas but thats just my point of view. ppl spend hundreds of hours on finetuning there antenna setup and changing it would make it only less good. its probably more efficient to have a bigger antenna in the receiving part, this time the lock, as it is for the sender part. like vespaman noted it could also saturate the sender/receiver circuitry.
The impedance are the same, as Chris stated, given that the correct antenna is selected.
ppl spend hundreds of hours on finetuning there antenna setup
That is what we did at my previous work, which was, incidently, in a similar set-up, but zigbee (same frequency band). The antenna type and position was the most complicated part, and in our case we went for a PIFA due to production reasons. But what is many times obvious when working with antennas in general is that “the bigger the better” as long as you meet the basic requirements.
like vespaman noted it could also saturate the sender/receiver circuitry.
No, the tx side cannot be saturated, the only thing that will likely happen, is that you will transmit more than you are allowed to, hence breaking regulation. But I don’t consider this a big crime. (maybe the neighbours do, however. )
The rx side can be saturated and noise floor can come up too high, and therefore, the reception side may not be optimal, but there a fair chance that even not optimized, the extra gain of the antenna will be very positive regardless. And I think people have stated this in this thread.
z-ohmage is the alternate current flowing through the antenne and thus creating more heat on the transmitter IC. but indeed it wouldnt hurt to have a 2/8 lambda vs a 1/8 lambda. the neighbours here never complain lol. i have a wifi that transmits 200mW vs 100mW which is allowed in my country and it only gives problem for them if they use the same channel as i do
nevertheless since ppl here have tried it and it seems to work, its save to say it may worth it to tweak. it still voids waranty though. which is imho the biggest con.
an extra vera added would be better solution i think.
well it wont hurt to solve a problem with the devices we have or tend to buy. might run into the same problems as we are in the same boat and then we have at least a reference on how to solve it or if its worth the trouble.
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). The only thing I did not try is to add an external antenna to my vera lite. Is it possible? And how? I’ve read some (really undetailed) ways to do that… seems possible… What do you think? My next step is to try insteon… really, I am getting frustrated with Vera (which, on paper, look so great!).
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