DVR based video security vs Vera integration thoughts

Other Devices & Integrations Door Locks & Sensors
1

I’ve been perusing the video section to consider options for cameras and would appreciate your thoughts and feedback.

What do you gain by having an ip camera that integrates with Vera? I know the cameras can then be viewed within the ui and by other Vera interface software. However, it seems the viewing options are likely somewhat limited.

On the other hand, you can get a decent basic dvr based 4 camera system for around $500. A system like this can send feeds to any TV in the house plus you get the DVR features.

I’ve thought about combining a DVR based system with Vera and sq blaster /remote. It looks like it would be doable to have Vera control my av devices through the sqblaster to pause my tv, switch interface to camera for 30 secs, switch back and unpause tv when the door is rung or another sensor is tripped.

The AV control is easy on the sq remote side, but it looks like a bit of work to be able to push that control through Vera.

What are folks’ thoughts on the trade offs between the two camera options?

The ideal goal would be to “push” video out to TVs and iPads when event or sensor is tripped. I saw a variation of this and got the idea from a Control4 set up I saw. The bonus of that system is that control4 has an expensive but dedicated tablet that can be wall mounted and have feeds pushed to it when events occur. I figure if Control4 which I believed is z-wave and ir baed can do it, I can get close with Vera for a small fraction of the cost.

Is anyone out there playing around with a setup like this?

2

[quote=“triangledave, post:1, topic:173603”]I’ve been perusing the video section to consider options for cameras and would appreciate your thoughts and feedback.

What do you gain by having an ip camera that integrates with Vera? I know the cameras can then be viewed within the ui and by other Vera interface software. However, it seems the viewing options are likely somewhat limited.

On the other hand, you can get a decent basic dvr based 4 camera system for around $500. A system like this can send feeds to any TV in the house plus you get the DVR features.

I’ve thought about combining a DVR based system with Vera and sq blaster /remote. It looks like it would be doable to have Vera control my av devices through the sqblaster to pause my tv, switch interface to camera for 30 secs, switch back and unpause tv when the door is rung or another sensor is tripped.

The AV control is easy on the sq remote side, but it looks like a bit of work to be able to push that control through Vera.

What are folks’ thoughts on the trade offs between the two camera options?

The ideal goal would be to “push” video out to TVs and iPads when event or sensor is tripped. I saw a variation of this and got the idea from a Control4 set up I saw. The bonus of that system is that control4 has an expensive but dedicated tablet that can be wall mounted and have feeds pushed to it when events occur. I figure if Control4 which I believed is z-wave and ir baed can do it, I can get close with Vera for a small fraction of the cost.

Is anyone out there playing around with a setup like this?[/quote]

Hi–

That’s a great idea. I have a Matrix DVR used to record video from several video cameras. The DVR is addressable through its UI over the network. Would that be an easier integration effort with vera? It also supports motion detection by the cameras which could be pushed to vera.

Don
3

Don,

Have you tried to integrate your system with Vera yet? To me that would be the ideal with the greatest amount of options, a relatively affordable DVR based video system that can “talk” to Vera like the ip based Foscam and Panasonic cameras can.

A plugin for that would be worth paying for.

I read on another thread that you shouldn’t treat your Vera cams as a security system. I’d like to figure a way to have both Vera cam convenience and basic functionality AND have a video security system without having to buy duplicate cameras.

4

[quote=“triangledave, post:3, topic:173603”]Don,

Have you tried to integrate your system with Vera yet? To me that would be the ideal with the greatest amount of options, a relatively affordable DVR based video system that can “talk” to Vera like the ip based Foscam and Panasonic cameras can.

A plugin for that would be worth paying for.

I read on another thread that you shouldn’t treat your Vera cams as a security system. I’d like to figure a way to have both Vera cam convenience and basic functionality AND have a video security system without having to buy duplicate cameras.[/quote]

Hi Dave

  Not sure how to proceed with the integration. I agree that a plugin would be worth paying for.

     Don
5

Hi,
I also thinking to go to a more sophisticated dvr system.
Actually I’m looking into http://www.zoneminder.com/ . Powerfull and opensource.
As far as I know the actual integration with Vera is limited to http request through lua.
Godd luck and have a nice WE.

6

Folks,

I’ve been researching this stuff for my own situation, too. I have clients who want professional DVR / NVR systems, but I’d like to be able to integrate them into automation control. Check out the plugin “DVR Install Utility”. The way DVR/NVR systems work, is they broadcast each video channel as a separate port on the DVR’s IP address. This plugin simply accepts that feed and allows for each camera to be added this way. If I understand the intent properly, this will mean you won’t have to worry about camera compatibilities and whatnot. I don’t know if Pan/Tilt can be controlled over this mechanism, but it might certainly mean clean video!

Perhaps combine this with the “Push Notification” plugin, or try “VeraAlerts” for Android users. There may be more like this.

I’ve not had opportunity to test any of the plugins I’ve mentioned yet.

Happy New Years!

Being in the Security Industry, what I’d love is a plugin that will cause an alarm state to quickly and reliably push video feed to mobile platforms through scene control… As in, alarm goes off, so end user’s phone goes crazy, and video feed of their cameras pops up immediately. Perhaps even with the 10 seconds of buffer prior to the alarm condition feature…

7

NVR looks like it would be the easiest to integrate, but they look like they are more spendy. Looking at an H540D4B Atrix system, there is an Ethernet port on the back. Is that how you’d connect and access via Vera?

The info says you can access cameras via IE, but I thing the access is only Windows based IE access.

Thoughts?

8

Hi,

I had the same problema a year ago. I have a dvr, I have 3 cameras, I have Vera. But I can not connect both. The DVR plugin doesn’t work with the DVR the way we expected, it’s only useful to have many IP cameras connected to Vera (working like DVR receiver) and not to a DVR exactly.

I haven’t solve this “problem”. :frowning:

9

Yes, the Vera would interface with a DVR/NVR system via IP. So long as it’s on the same LAN, you would be in business.

DVR/NVR systems almost always come with their own applications in order to dial in from cell phones or computers over the internet, or the LAN. The way they generally work, is if the IP of the DVR/NVR is 192.168.0.100, then camera 1 would be 192.168.0.100:1 camera 2 would be 192.168.0.100:2 etc. (The numbers are invented, every system would be different)

That way, each “channel” is broadcast on the same IP, differentiated by port. This should make it very simple to integrate into Vera, as it can see IP camera data pretty decently already.

I suppose it’s all very much moot. If the alarm goes off, the guy could manually just look into the camera feed.

However, having access to the speed of Vera Alerts being using the Google API however, you could have near instantaneous notification of alarm. Even professional alarm monitoring companies will take a bit of time to make the calls and reach them. Then when they do, the client will already have seen the feed, and can make a decent decision.

10

I’m working on the same project now.

I want to also view my cams on my TV whenever I need.

So to this end I will attempt to set all this up using an NVR, SQ Remote, and a monoprice switcher. The important part is that you use an NVR that has a vider encoder output built in so out can output ip cam video to coaxial or hdmi output. I’ll be traveling to Shenzen next week to find a suitable NVR (hopefully).

11

I’ve just done a lot of research on this topic recently. http://www.networkcameracritic.com/ and http://www.cctvforum.com/ are great resources.

If you’re traveling to shenzhen, check out Dahua (distributed in the US as Q-SEE), considered one of the best manufacturers for IP cameras and NVRs from China at the moment. IIRC, they’re based in hangzhou, but i don’t think it’ll be hard to find some samples in shenzhen. The Dahua NVR sends push alerts to your mobile device and will also hook up to an alarm system as a relay if it detects motion. My unit supports up to three alarm relay outputs, and i’m using two of them to trigger scenes in vera at the moment (i.e. turn on lights in that sector if the camera detects motion) via the DSC plugin.

Despite being one of the higher quality manufacturers in China, there are a few caveats though. The motion detection on the dahua works well in theory, but their algorithm triggers quite a few false positives. Also, while I can get the cameras to show images in vera, there is a bug in the current Vera firmware which prevents the settings from sticking. Until MCV issues an update, the images from these cameras won’t appear in Vera.

If you have a separate machine you can use for DVR duties, a better alternative may be to use blue iris (software DVR) which is much more accurate for motion detection. It’s very accurate, and you can configure blue iris to send alerts to vera.

12

[quote=“Pestus, post:9, topic:173603”]Yes, the Vera would interface with a DVR/NVR system via IP. So long as it’s on the same LAN, you would be in business.

DVR/NVR systems almost always come with their own applications in order to dial in from cell phones or computers over the internet, or the LAN. The way they generally work, is if the IP of the DVR/NVR is 192.168.0.100, then camera 1 would be 192.168.0.100:1 camera 2 would be 192.168.0.100:2 etc. (The numbers are invented, every system would be different)

That way, each “channel” is broadcast on the same IP, differentiated by port. This should make it very simple to integrate into Vera, as it can see IP camera data pretty decently already.[/quote]

Yup, that setup works, but there are also some technical issues to anticipate (which I hadn’t considered when I started). If you have a large array of HD cameras on a high-traffic network, the extra bandwidth on your LAN may require you to separate your networks into different physical layers. A lot of DVR/NVR setups force this setup out of the box but don’t bridge the subnets out of anticipation for this issue. If you intend to keep your normal lan, vera, and your camera equipment on the same subnet, it might be a good idea to do some simple calculations first to see if bandwidth might be an issue.

13

[quote=“silencery, post:11, topic:173603”]I’ve just done a lot of research on this topic recently. http://www.networkcameracritic.com/ and http://www.cctvforum.com/ are great resources.

If you’re traveling to shenzhen, check out Dahua (distributed in the US as Q-SEE), considered one of the best manufacturers for IP cameras and NVRs from China at the moment. IIRC, they’re based in hangzhou, but i don’t think it’ll be hard to find some samples in shenzhen. The Dahua NVR sends push alerts to your mobile device and will also hook up to an alarm system as a relay if it detects motion. My unit supports up to three alarm relay outputs, and i’m using two of them to trigger scenes in vera at the moment (i.e. turn on lights in that sector if the camera detects motion) via the DSC plugin.

Despite being one of the higher quality manufacturers in China, there are a few caveats though. The motion detection on the dahua works well in theory, but their algorithm triggers quite a few false positives. Also, while I can get the cameras to show images in vera, there is a bug in the current Vera firmware which prevents the settings from sticking. Until MCV issues an update, the images from these cameras won’t appear in Vera.

If you have a separate machine you can use for DVR duties, a better alternative may be to use blue iris (software DVR) which is much more accurate for motion detection. It’s very accurate, and you can configure blue iris to send alerts to vera.[/quote]

The bug that you are referring to, are you using a custom port for the nvr and have the mac address set? If you have the mac address entered and are using a different port than 80, this will cause the settings for the camera plugin to reset and the image will not be available. The only way to work around this is to remove the mac address from the camera plugin settings if using a custom port number.

  • Garrett
14

someone using NVR and foscam network cameras ?

for sure acessing in vera and app’s like homewave, sqremote and authomation.

what NVR model ?

thanks

15

[quote=“garrettwp, post:13, topic:173603”][quote=“silencery, post:11, topic:173603”]I’ve just done a lot of research on this topic recently. http://www.networkcameracritic.com/ and http://www.cctvforum.com/ are great resources.

If you’re traveling to shenzhen, check out Dahua (distributed in the US as Q-SEE), considered one of the best manufacturers for IP cameras and NVRs from China at the moment. IIRC, they’re based in hangzhou, but i don’t think it’ll be hard to find some samples in shenzhen. The Dahua NVR sends push alerts to your mobile device and will also hook up to an alarm system as a relay if it detects motion. My unit supports up to three alarm relay outputs, and i’m using two of them to trigger scenes in vera at the moment (i.e. turn on lights in that sector if the camera detects motion) via the DSC plugin.

Despite being one of the higher quality manufacturers in China, there are a few caveats though. The motion detection on the dahua works well in theory, but their algorithm triggers quite a few false positives. Also, while I can get the cameras to show images in vera, there is a bug in the current Vera firmware which prevents the settings from sticking. Until MCV issues an update, the images from these cameras won’t appear in Vera.

If you have a separate machine you can use for DVR duties, a better alternative may be to use blue iris (software DVR) which is much more accurate for motion detection. It’s very accurate, and you can configure blue iris to send alerts to vera.[/quote]

The bug that you are referring to, are you using a custom port for the nvr and have the mac address set? If you have the mac address entered and are using a different port than 80, this will cause the settings for the camera plugin to reset and the image will not be available. The only way to work around this is to remove the mac address from the camera plugin settings if using a custom port number.

  • Garrett[/quote]

Yup, that’s exactly it! Unfortunately, my cams do not serve images on any port other than 9988. Thanks for the mac address tip. I’ll definitely give that a shot. Really appreciate the tips.

P.S. does removing the mac address reference matter to the camera plugin settings in vera?

16

@silencery

Thanks for the feedback. I leave tomorrow and will check into the Dahua. What model do you have? How long have you had it?

I think I can find this in Guanzhou. Will let you all know what I come up with.

17

I’m using the US branded version of NVR3208. A detailed review is available here: http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=962

Costco in the US sells a similar set which includes this same NVR, but the 4 channel version, plus 4 720 cameras for about $700 which is a pretty good deal since the cameras usually retail around $150/ea here in the US.

Honestly, I would not have bought the NVR if it didn’t come bundled with the set I got (similar to the Costco set, but with an 8-channel NVR instead) due to the high rate of false positives on motion detection and the clunky UI. For me though, it was a really good alternative to setting up a full-blown blue iris server when it came down to cost.

18

I think I found the one I want to check out.
[url=http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/nvr31043108-297.html]http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/nvr31043108-297.html[/url]

Look like the newer “updated” unit.

19

Looks good!

Doesnt look like it’s got alarm relay outputs though, so you may not be able to tie camera motion into Vera (unless your cameras are already supported by Vera which means you can bypass the NVR for those tasks).

20

For camera’s I would go IP based, then you can select the NVR solutions that fits your needs.

For Camera’s:
If you want value for the dollar and don’t want to go over $100 a camera then go with the Foscam 8910w (they also have a PoE Version of this camera) or upgrade to the 9821w (720p H.264 version). Both of these camera’s have Pan & Tilt / Night Vision / 2 way audio and are WiFi for those hard to wire areas (just as a note it is always better to hardwire if you can).
If you want quality than go for the Dahua camera’s that are in the 1.3-3 mega pixels range. These are not WiFi and they will cost closer to $150-$300 a camera and most aren’t Pan & Tilt but the image quality is much better.

For NVR:
I personally use the BlueIris software, it only cost $49 for up to 64 camera’s and I have it send me iOS alerts and you can also have it send commands to Vera. Some people use the Synology NAS to record their video, I was looking at this option but didn’t like having to pay for a license for each camera. I have found the BlurIris solution was the cheapest with the best results. I ended up using an 8 year old Pentium D computer I had in the closet for my video server and it has worked great. I personally have had to many issues with the dedicated NVR Boxes and compatibly issues.