Remember they do need to be mounted to an external heatsink, hence the flat base and the lugs; the case itself isn’t sufficient for much power dissipation.
The resistors can be purchased from Digikey.com $3.30 each http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/KAL25FB1K50/KAL25FB1K50-ND/1646191
I will be testing heat discharge on a standard 4 inch can today.
Keep in mind that my testing was ONLY on a Leviton Brand 1000w dimmer…others could be different. The resistor allows the dimmer to fully function even with no other loads connected.
Heat is the big issue and caution must be taken to insure a safe install.
Regards
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts
I will post a finished photo tomorrow … end results are stable dimming rates and No Flicker for 10 different styles and brands of LED Lighting!
Regards
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts[/quote]
Great work! Would love to see pics of your installation, Thanks
As a safety measure, why not mount a thermal fuse wired in series adjacent to the resistor on the can? Digikey have a range, at $.40 ea or thereabouts.
Here is a photo of a standard can light…the small rectangle in the bottom with two wires attached is a thermal overload circuit. If the light fixture gets too hot the power shuts off automatically. We are mounting the resistor nearby so that excessive heat from a malfunction will shut the circuit down and not allow anything to catch fire. I wll run the circuit 24 hours then check it with a thermal temperature gauge.
more to come…waiting for the resistors to arrive!
Regards
Tim Alls
Allseas Yachts
Have you checked to see if the resistor gives the same results if installed as the first device on the circuit (first light can in a string of 6 cans for instance) or on the last light can in that example?
I’m not an electrician so this may not matter but I’m noticing these led bulbs act odd for some reason… Here is my real example… I have a wall of sconces 8 bulbs total,(philips dimmable flare tip with regular base) and the 2 bulb always shows a greener color that the rest… I’ve swapped out with 2 bulbs to confirm…
Just a thought.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
[quote=“big517, post:26, topic:170342”]Have you checked to see if the resistor gives the same results if installed as the first device on the circuit (first light can in a string of 6 cans for instance) or on the last light can in that example?
I’m not an electrician so this may not matter but I’m noticing these led bulbs act odd for some reason… Here is my real example… I have a wall of sconces 8 bulbs total,(philips dimmable flare tip with regular base) and the 2 bulb always shows a greener color that the rest… I’ve swapped out with 2 bulbs to confirm…
Just a thought.[/quote]
The lighting circuits are in parallel with each other so it does not matter where you tie in the dummy load …The test I did with the Leviton 1000W dimmer showed that all LED lights added into the room functioned properly after adding the dummy load into the circuit.
To confirm your odd behavior comment…I too noticed that before adding the dummy load lights that were further away had different flickering properties. This, I am speculating, is due to the reactive loading the LED lights create and the length of the wire may change the capacitive reactance to the circuit…bottom line is the dummy load eliminates all strange behavior.
Regards
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts
I have a question that derives itself from the discussions on this thread. Would the use of a added a 1650 ohm shunt, passing a 70mA current provide enough energy to activate a Leviton VRS05-1L (Scene Capable, non-dimming, incandescent switch with no neutral) in a 3-Way installation? Leviton switches are very useful in single-pole installations. However, in a 3-way installation without a neutral, I need to have, at the least, a 40 watt bulb in parallel with every LED light in the circuit or the Leviton switch will not function properly. I realize that with the shunt in the circuit, you will create a 10 watt vampire load at every fixture, but if it allows you to reduce the lamp wattage of every light fixture by at least 50%, it might be an interesting trade-off or a least lead to an interesting discussion. I also wonder what the difference is between using a 1650 ohm shunt for each fixture in a specific 3-way circuit compared to using a 40 watt incandescent bulb as a “shunt”?
Here is a photo of a standard can light…the small rectangle in the bottom with two wires attached is a thermal overload circuit. If the light fixture gets too hot the power shuts off automatically. We are mounting the resistor nearby so that excessive heat from a malfunction will shut the circuit down and not allow anything to catch fire. I wll run the circuit 24 hours then check it with a thermal temperature gauge.
more to come…waiting for the resistors to arrive!
Regards
Tim Alls
Allseas Yachts[/quote]
Great stuff Tim keep it coming, going to convert the house to LED when you’re done with testing
Even though my testing was done with a Leviton 1000Watt dimmer I suspect that other Leviton products will give similar results…that is just a guess. To prove it use a 10 watt bulb in one of your lights along with the LED and see if it still functions. If it does then you will know what to expect with a dummy load since they are both resistive loads they will act the same. If you need more than a 10 watt load the heat buildup will be an issue to deal with…the 1.5 K resistors don’t give off much heat and are pretty easy to manage.
It will really be nice for all the Forum Users to get a database together of what the value of the dummy loads are required so that LED lighting can be used! LEDs are here to stay so lets all work together to solve the issues…food for thought!
@pgrover516…Good to hear!
Regard
Tim Alls
Allseas Yachts
I also wonder what the difference is between using a 1650 ohm shunt for each fixture in a specific 3-way circuit compared to using a 40 watt incandescent bulb as a "shunt"?It occurs to me that incandescent bulbs are much more non-linear than resistors. The filament has a higher reistance when hot than cold. This might work to the advantage: you might be able to use a lower wattage of bulb to ballast a dimmer than a straight resistor. The balast current is needed most when the load is off, at which point a bulb in shunt would remain cold, and low resistance. When the load is running at high level the bulb filament heats and its resistance rises.
So it might be that if you need a 10W ballast load, a 5W bulb might do the same trick.
On the other hand low wattage bulbs have narrow and fragile filaments.
Anyone want to experiment further?
Yesterday, I tested two dummy loads on a Leviton 600 W dimmer, no neutral, 3-way circuit to see if I could eliminate flicker: one load worked the other did not. My test environment was a Leviton VRI06 600W dimmer in a 3-way configuration. The only lamp in the circuit is a ZetaLux Pro 2 LED lamp. I tested using two lamps as shunts: a 7.5 watt night-light bulb and an 11 watt signage bulb. The 7.5 watt bulb gave marginal performance. The 11 watt lamp appears to give rock solid performance. It should be noted that I am not trying to see how well the circuit functions as a dimmer. What is more useful to me is to take my energy cost for the circuit from 60 w to 18 w.
I now have another issue to deal with. The circuit in question is the lamp is the lamp circuit for a ceiling fan. In normal operation the LED lamp would be enclosed in a glass globe. I have seen numerous warnings telling me to never use an LED lamp in an enclosed fixture because it will be very detrimental to the life of the LED lamp. I might be able to take a chance with a 7 watt LED lamp inside the glass globe of a ceiling fan fixture. However, the 11 watt “shunt” lamp that I would need to make the circuit function greatly increases the stakes. Even though shunt lamp is only 11 watts, it is still too hot to handle with bare hands during normal operation. I am afraid that if I place the two bulbs in the same globe, I will soon have a “fried” LED lamp after a relatively short period of time.
So I am now looking at two options: try to find a vented ceiling fan vented glass glove - no luck to far or to use a shunt resistor similar to one described in this thread and mount it somewhere on the ceiling lamp fixture somewhere outside of the glass globe. I anyone has any suggestions regarding what I can do in this situation, I would appreciate hearing from you.
At any rate, I now know that if you have a no neutral, two traveler wire, non-dimming, 3-way circuit and you want to replace an incandescent lamp with an ZetaLux 2 Pro LED lamp in an open, well-ventilated fixture, using an 11 watt signage bulb as a shunt might work. However, just remember that this is not a recommendation, it is merely an observation. You assume all risks for doing this in your own environment.
@silvereagle2208
Some of the LED bulbs generate quite a bit a heat so enclosing them would be bad…perhaps you could create a couple of air vents above the glass dome to give it a place for the heat to go…that is going to be a tough one!
In regards to the dummy load…I am going with 1K resistors because the dimming was smoother with a 10 Watt load. The resistor could be mounted on the metal housing to the fan…if mounted to a metal structure the heat spreads out nicely and is disipated into the air…it’s not much heat but enough to be cautious with. Keep us posted as to the outcome. I have fans with three lights on the bottom and the LED’s would work fine with that arrangement…I am unsure if you could change to that configuration. Good Luck.
@autotoronto
I would be interested in any testing you do with your dimmers…the goal here is to use the smallest amount of energy and create a functioning LED lighting circuit. For me, 10 watts of wasted power to correct for the reactive loading which screws up the dimmer circuits. Of course we saved when we switched to LED’s but it is a shame to loose the 10 watts to create a functioning dimmer!
Regards
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts
My resistors came in yesterday…here is how I am curing the LED flickering issue on ten different dimmers. Remote mounted dummy loads, 1K or about 10 watts added to the output of Leviton 1000W Dimmers.
More to come.
Regards
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts
Nice install. Can I suggest a dab of heatsink paste under each resistor, if you didn’t already use it?
You are right on target! Yes we will as well as adding fins to the back side of the panel. [glow=red,2,300]…EDIT…there is no heat build up so no fins are needed.[/glow]
I will be checking the temp with our laser…going to run them all 24 hours at full intensity then check the heat build up.
More to Come…
Regards
Tim Alls
Here is the final install…we have been running full power for hours and the heat build up is just warm to touch…that is with 10 circuits running all at once.
I will check it’s temperature tomorrow but It appears that the LED dummy loads are going to work fine!
We took the output of each dimmer and fed them into the resistors shown…the common white ties them all to neutral.
The light CANs are next but I see no problems.
Regards
Tim
Hi All,
Final heat testing this morning after running all 10 circuits all night…backing plate is at 89 degrees…same as yesterday, just warm to touch.
Bugs:
LED’s don’t ramp up like the normal bulbs
Dimming is not perfectly smooth to the eye but the dummy load makes dimming linear
LED’s can’t go below 10%
On the upside is lower energy, and no changing of the lightbulbs!
Regards
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts
great stuff, Thanks again Tim
Inductor wouldn’t work, but what about capacitor, it should?