Controlling UPnP/DLNA enabled devices from Vera

Vera’s GUI (UI4) claims to support the import of UPnP devices (‘Add/remove device’ → ‘Add control over another UPnP device, such as another MiOS’) - but unfortunately, importing more complex UPnP devices doesn’t work (http://bugs.micasaverde.com/view.php?id=1473).

What would be possible if bug #1473 were fixed?

You could import your UPnP/DLNA enabled devices (Sonos, Squeezebox/Whitebear Media Server, TV sets, amplifiers, routers, mobile phones, …) into Vera and control your devices from Vera’s scenes (‘Advanced’ → ‘Pick a device’ → Add → Select UPnP action) and from Luup code. See http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,7707.0.html for further information.

@Ap15E - Agreed this needs to be fixed.

One feature that sets MiCasaVerde aside from mere lighting and security controllers is the ability to act as intelligent remote control for digital media server and renderers. I would like it to not only control electricity to my home’s lights, thermostat and door locks, etc. but to control streams of information such as images, web pages, audio and AV to various destinations around the house. I gave up on the Schlage Link Bridge because it could not even react to a window or motion sensor.

The UPnP/DLNA related bugs should be fixed.

Here is a white paper about UPnP/DLNA worth reading:
http://www.allegrosoft.com/UPnP_DLNA_White_Paper.pdf

Vera2 (1.1.1245, UI4); ACT ZRW113W; GE/Jasco 45602, 45604, 45605 x3, 45606 x4, 45609 x11, 45614; Hawking HRDS1 x3; Intermatic CA9000 x2; Schlage BE369GR, WCE100; Trane TZEMT400AB32MAA

I’m very surprised that MCV moved my UPnP/DLNA poll from the ‘General’ forum to the ‘AV Control’ sub-forum - without notice.

UPnP/DLNA is more than AV control!

I know of no UPnP Control Point that is able to control Vera. And yes, you guess it, MCV is blaming the UPnP Control Points …

It doesn’t take an army of highly qualified software engineers to fix the basic UPnP bugs, e. g. [tt]http://bugs.micasaverde.com/view.php?id=1487[/tt].

The more and more I think about it, the more I get the impression that MCV doesn’t care at all or that some features are broken on purpose to avoid alleged cannibalization effects and will never get fixed.

IMHO, not adhering to standards is never a good idea.

@Ap15e,
They didn’t, I did. Your poll is very specific to AV functionality, based upon the use-cases referenced so far. So, like other miss-posts, it gets moved in the regular nightly scan/shuffle.

If you’d like to broaden the poll, to cover multiple Topics / Categories then it could be done in the General bucket.

For example, a Poll to have people make the tradeoff, and decide on what they most want the fix most for:

a) Insteon/X10 Support
b) AV/UPnP Support
c) IR Support/Remote Issues
d) Improved Z-Wave Support for Battery devices
e) Better Z-Wave Diagnostics (and/or Visualizations) for failing environments
f) Large scale deployments

Most of the above cover a general/broad range of the areas that Vera covers, and are “active” themes in their respective Discussion Categories, and have a wide array of impacted people/users.

This also ensures that any “fix this bug” type discussion is also held in the greater context of “these won’t be fixed” if they do.

ie. all the standard tradeoffs that are made daily in Professional Software development :wink:

Your poll is very specific to AV functionality, based upon the use-cases referenced so far. So, like other miss-posts, it gets moved in the regular nightly scan/shuffle.

I heartily disagree. As you might know UPnP/DLNA has a broader scope than AV.

If you'd like to broaden the poll, to cover multiple Topics / Categories then it could be done in the General bucket.

So you decide what can be ‘polled’ in the General forum? Great. Where is the forum policy?

ie. all the standard tradeoffs that are made daily in Professional Software development

You would categorize MiOS as ‘Professional Software development’? :o

a) Insteon/X10 Support b) AV/UPnP Support c) IR Support/Remote Issues d) Improved Z-Wave Support for Battery devices e) Better Z-Wave Diagnostics (and/or Visualizations) for failing environments f) Large scale deployments

I cannot see any progress on any of the aforementioned categories on MCV’s side, but I do see regressions that MCV doesn’t care about (e.g., support for Danfoss RA-Plus-w, UIRT, …).

All progress made so far consists of contributions by users, not by MCV (to name just a few: Mochad plugin, vendor-specific AV plugins, IR plugins/code, ADD, LSI, dataMine).

[quote=“Ap15e, post:6, topic:169657”]

Your poll is very specific to AV functionality, based upon the use-cases referenced so far. So, like other miss-posts, it gets moved in the regular nightly scan/shuffle.

I heartily disagree. As you might know UPnP/DLNA has a broader scope than AV.[/quote]
I understand that UPnP has a set of functionality over and above it’s AV roots, which is why I indicated is was based upon the use-cases referenced so far… (which are basically Receivers, Sonos-like devices, and TV’s)

So you decide what can be 'polled' in the General forum? Great. Where is the forum policy?
As you know, we expanded the categorization in the Forum some 6mo back to better segment the Topic discussions in order to group those that were related, and better allow the sub-communities to see what's interesting to them, and for folks posting questions to have their stuff not get "lost" in the noise that was the original "General" bit-bucket and to [hopefully] get resolution from people that have similar interests.

This Categorization outline was floated to the Beta Members for review, and it underwent a few revisions based upon concensus feedback over a period of about 2 mo.

After the rollout, I manually moved a few key discussions from General over into their segmented categories. From time to time, I do a similar “quick scan” of the General bucket and, based solely upon the content of the post, I’ll move it.

If the post content covers none of the sub-categories, or a set of them, then I leave it in General. I moved about 10 posts last night, after looking at the content of each and your post was just one.

We have a few other Global Moderators that do similar things, and are reasonably consistent about doing it.

ie. all the standard tradeoffs that are made daily in Professional Software development

You would categorize MiOS as ‘Professional Software development’? :o


No matter which way you categorize their efforts, I believe we do better when we organize our “wish lists” based upon what we’d expect when folks come to us in our own Professional lives.

Which do you prefer, a Customer that organizes an ordered set of priorities for resolution, or a one-at-a-time shower of stuff?

We took a rough stab at this ordered wish-list for one of the latter UI4 releases, and it had a great result. IMHO, if we repeated that process, with “holistic” lists for drops, rather than one-offs, we’d have a better voice to get things addressed.

That’s what I’m referring to when I talk about Professional SW Dev, to organize and prioritize, and to use our collective power.

a) Insteon/X10 Support b) AV/UPnP Support c) IR Support/Remote Issues d) Improved Z-Wave Support for Battery devices e) Better Z-Wave Diagnostics (and/or Visualizations) for failing environments f) Large scale deployments

I cannot see any progress on any of the aforementioned categories on MCV’s side, but I do see regressions that MCV doesn’t care about (e.g., support for Danfoss RA-Plus-w, UIRT, …).


It’s not by accident that I put together that specific list 8)

All progress made so far consists of contributions by users, not by MCV (to name just a few: Mochad plugin, vendor-specific AV plugins, IR plugins/code, ADD, LSI, dataMine).
And that's a good thing. There's a whole bag of stuff that we, as programmers, could easily write to extend the platform to do exactly what we need for our specialist devices. Work-arounds, of course, but we can write them...

Z-Wave, and some of the core functionality above, on the other hand is totally out of our control and requires MCV and Team to address it. I don’t know about you, but I’d like to see more stuff exposed so we can extend (or replace). It would avoid some of the bottlenecks the more advanced users see.

Oh, and I really should have added Scene support for “AND” to the list, to be more complete voting list… :smiley:

Agreed. This functionality would be a major boost to it and it’s one of the reasons I bought a Vera2 in the first place. It would make the Sonus plugin unnecessary if UPnP support was properly working. I’ve emailed MCV more than a few times since I bought my Vera2 providing logs and remote access to assist them in getting this fixed but it hasn’t really gone anywhere.

With firmware 1.1.1362, I can finally add my XBMC Media Renderer and get something on the advanced tab of an scene, but simple things like play/pause don’t work, and it has the same options for AVTransport, ConnectionManager, and RenderingControl. It shouldn’t - it’s using the AVTransport options for everything. Ideally, the vera would not only be able to control things via UPnP but it would also hook them into events, so if something changed on a UPnP control point, the vera would watch for it and automatically fire a scene based on that. The pieces are obviously all there, but it shouldn’t be taking so long to get them fleshed out and working.

I understand that UPnP has a set of functionality over and above it's AV roots, which is why I indicated is was based upon the use-cases referenced so far... (which are basically Receivers, Sonos-like devices, and TV's)

Vera itself pretends to be an UPnP device, that could be controlled by generic UPnP Control Points (e.g. Intel’s UPnP tools), but Vera fails miserably at introducing herself (http://bugs.micasaverde.com/view.php?id=1487). A long time ago I was able to control Vera via Intel’s UPnP tools - another regression MCV doesn’t care about.

I cannot see any benefit in writing vendor-specific Luup plugins for UPnP enabled devices (e.g, Sonos, LMS-Whitebear Media Server combo, IP cameras, …). If there are crowdsourced (and non-reusable …) workarounds for basic bugs in MiOS, why should MCV have any interest in fixing the bugs?

No matter which way you categorize their efforts, I believe we do better when we organize our "wish lists" based upon what we'd expect when folks come to us in our own Professional lives.

Agreed - but the poll was started to check the validity of MCV’s statement at [tt]http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,8505.msg54503.html#msg54503[/tt].

Work-arounds, of course, but we can write them...

Yes, we can (no pun intended) - but wouldn’t it be more efficient to press MCV to fix the basic bugs rather than writing a plugin for every UPnP enabled device? Remember what it took to convince MCV that breaking most of the existing plugins is a bad idea ([tt]http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,8012.msg53344.html#msg53344[/tt] - access for beta testers only).

Z-Wave, and some of the core functionality above, on the other hand is totally out of our control and requires MCV and Team to address it.

Well, to some extent, there is functionality to do low level stuff via [tt]SendData[/tt] - and users are using it to work around bugs in MiOS …

I don't know about you, but I'd like to see more stuff exposed so we can extend (or replace). It would avoid some of the bottlenecks the more advanced users see.

IMHO MCV’s should listen to their crowdsourced developers and fix the basic bugs so that the developers can concentrate on really challenging tasks - and not on creating workarounds over and over again.

Just an example of a non-purely-AV UPnP enabled device, that could be controlled from Vera - without the need for a specific Luup plugin:

[tt]Integración de Rovio en una red UPnP - YouTube

I am trying to control a UPnP media renderer as well. so far no luck:
the call should look like this (for stopping(

luup.call_action( “urn:upnp-org:ServiceId:AVTransport”, “Stop”,{A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID=‘0’},37 )

I’d love to see Sonos control on my Vera!
My knowledge in this area is limited but the potential is certainly unarguable.
Let’s just keep getting better!!!

This actually works now in the latest UI5. I’m able to play/pause my XBMC box via a scene, but I can’t get it working via Luup code yet.

pretty cool stuff, this way my old XboXes can have a new use as touchscreen remote :smiley:

‘Solution’ for bug #1473: [tt]http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,10165.0.html[/tt]

[quote=“Ap15e, post:10, topic:169657”]Just an example of a non-purely-AV UPnP enabled device, that could be controlled from Vera - without the need for a specific Luup plugin:

[tt]Integración de Rovio en una red UPnP - YouTube

Hello,
We got now a beta plugin for crontoling the Rovio from the Vera (see pics attached)
Anyone want to give a try? please email: info@domoticadavinci.com
Regards.
José