Contemplating going Mainstream

Vera Controllers, Services & Devices Vera Controllers & Cameras
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I’ve been a long-time Vera user/customer (nearly 7 years now), and generally happy. But I’m tired of the tinkering and having to be a semi-technical whiz to work with the thing, as well as the lack of slick products (in particular, in-wall controllers, etc.). I know there’s a lot of stuff out there you can get to work with Vera, but my foray into home automation was for exactly that reason…home automation, not home science project. I have Vera Lites in both my primary and weekend homes, and they’re at a point where they generally run smoothly and do everything I need them to do. But, I can’t get a fancy thermostat (like the color-screen Honeywell) and am stuck with my very reliable, but rather ugly Trane thermostats, my only touch screen wall controller isn’t even a touch screen (Evolve LCD) and using the very-outdated Vera (UI5) web interface to configure the thing up is just a pain. I’ve got a pre-order in for a bRightSwtich, but they just keep delaying and changing their design, and again, it seems like something I’ll have to tinker with if I ever actually receive it. I don’t mean to come off as bashing Vera - the stuff it does it does well. But when something goes awry, I have to put on my geek hat and figure it out myself. This forum has been invaluable, but Vera support just isn’t there. I’m looking for the plug & play experience, and especially design-conscious device compatibility. So…

I’m contemplating going with one of the new mainstream products out there, like Revolv, SmartThings or Wink. Each has pros and cons, and I realize I will likely be giving up some flexibility - you can do virtually anything with Vera if you want to geek out. The Wink is most appealing primarily because of that “Relay” in-wall controller they’re coming out with, but it’s also gotten the poorest reviews in terms of reliability and device compatibility, and it’s the newest. Revolv seems very robust, but there’s no slick in-wall controller available - they tout the Insteon keypads, but I’ve already got a load of Leviton scene controller keypads, which are virtually the same thing, and they’re just not that cool. In this day of color interactive touchscreens, who wants a limited set of blank white push buttons. SmartThings seems the most positively reviewed, but again, no slick wall controller. They all come with multi-protocol support (varying between them), which is also nice, at least until the world settles on a single standard. For example, they all support one or more wifi thermostats without any special plug-in required - you aren’t shackled to a z-wave only thermostat like I am today (at least, to ensure flawless operation).

Vera has been good to me, and I’m hesitant to abandon it, but I’m not seeing the innovation that these new players seem to have. And I’m just tired of looking at that ugly Evolve LCD scene controller in my entry.

Interested in any & all feedback, especially from anyone who has actually used one of the products I mention above.

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Here’s a full color 7" ‘scene controller’ of sorts you can replace the evolve with for $39 at Wallyworld.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ematic-7-Tablet-8GB-Memory-Quad-Core-Black/28858632?affillinktype=10&dest=9999999997&oid=100143.1&sourceid=36184756762750106491&u1=7338b9135a1c4ca4b734bd089cbbd7df&veh=aff&wmlspartner=lw9MynSeamY

Authomation or ImperiHome would do well as the GUI for Vera.

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I now have vera3 ( 4 years of vera 2 prior ). I agree it’s a science project that never ends. I got a wink to have a few sensors and the propane gauge. I needed a new garage door opener, so I went with the my-q and it integrated with wink with no issues in about a minute. I am now on the fence. I just struggled and got vera 3 with the latest ui7!working ( restoring, deleting, restoring … Resetting.) and I believe 3 usernames on getvera we are back to almost the functionality of ui5.

I too wish there was a one stop shop, that encompassed all the already installed pieces.

Wink has promise, but again, it has a tough time with older parts as it’s based on scanning new devices to add them.

I did somehow end up with wink as a scene controller in vera ( i don’t know how ) but can’t actually use it. And now can’t get rid of it either. I think if the wink integrated into the vera network that would be about perfect.

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Did the MyQ integration with Wink need the MyQ website or are they talking directly to eachother?

Due to the fact MyQ is refusing to release the API and seems to have a ‘we will sue you’ attitude, integrating it into any controller is no more than a kludge based on reverse engineering and guesswork. Based on your experience I’m wondering if (considering both brands are carried by HomeDepot) Wink got the inside information needed to get the MyQ working correctly and directly.

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Your title says “going Mainstream” but then you list all these fly by night companies as options?? They’re the same as Vera.
Mainstream would be the HAI or Elk category. You just install them and they do what they’re supposed to do . Period.

As far as the “cool” in wall touchscreens… you’d be surprised how little you would actually use them. 10 years ago they were cool, now you have a phone on you at all times that’s just as cool and way more practical.
That being said, there are options of adding the coolest in wall TS’s to Vera, but it would take work and that’s something you want to get away from so…

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[quote=“BOFH”]Did the MyQ integration with Wink need the MyQ website or are they talking directly to eachother?

Due to the fact MyQ is refusing to release the API and seems to have a ‘we will sue you’ attitude, integrating it into any controller is no more than a kludge based on reverse engineering and guesswork. Based on your experience I’m wondering if (considering both brands are carried by HomeDepot) Wink got the inside information needed to get the MyQ working correctly and directly.[/quote]

I signed up on the myq website and installed the myq app. I tested the garage door with the myq app and it worked. I then went into the wink app and added a garage door. The wink app takes your chamberlain user/pass and it adds a garage door icon to the app. The chamberlain app can then be removed if desired. I get push notifications of opening and closing when using the wink app. Door operation is instant.

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You want the coolest touch screens and stuff that just “works”? Here you go: http://www.control4.com/products/touch-screens

How much money do you have?

And as someone else mentioned earlier all the other “cheap” alternatives are not mainstream yet, they were just lucky enough to get distribution through Amazon or a big box store. That doesn’t mean they work well. HA systems that work well and aren’t a continual science project like Vera actually cost $$$$.

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I doubt Wink is using the unofficial API (available at http://docs.unofficialliftmastermyq.apiary.io/) which would most likely to cause MyQ to sue them like they are Linear. Based on the above I’d say Wink obtained the full API and support from MyQ for their implementation but is still using the MyQ website/server for operation of the garage door.

Actually my Vera setup hasn’t been that much work. With the exception of the MyQ/Assurelink setup. That one is my biggest headache as I can’s seem to get it 100% reliable. Most of which is probably due to the Vera plugin also requiring the MyQ website and it doesn’t have benefit of the full API nor a team of programmers. Macrho started it with help from the community here and I added Assurelink support to it which was time consuming as the Assurelink App ID was needed. Luckily I had access to some mobile software developers who put me on the right track on hwo to get hold of that ID.

You want to go truly mainstream? You’ll be looking at the likes of Crestron and Ectron at this time. It just works but it’s not cheap.

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Can you integrate a crestron or control 4 system with as much flexibility as vera? And is it possible to DIY? We looked into this a bit before we went with vera and I hate the idea of paying someone every time it want to add a light switch or new scene. One of the things I love about vera is the ability to tinker and the potential to build new sensors over time, etc…

I do wish the basics would be more user friendly though. I’d pay more for a system that would be easier to set up and work out of the box. My hope is that vera will get there, because they ultimately will have to in order to survive, but not holding my breath, as I don’t see much from competing products that I think is ready for prime time.

I do wish fibaro products were easier to get, as I think their design is a bit better than the other products I’ve seen, but haven’t seen them in person, so hard to say. Not sure why it’s so hard to design nice looking equipment!

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I do think that scenes are easier to the release version of UI7. I think Vera is trying hard to make it more user friendly. My worry with some of the new companies is will they still exist around in a couple of years?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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It definitely looks like in theory UI7 should be easier. I’m just not brave enough to try the upgrade yet! I still have a few plug ins that are mission critical and I’m not sure are working.

Just wish they would consult the less technical among us–I get the feeling that what is easy for some people with more of a tech background, is not nearly as intuitive to many potential users. Whenever i start a project I have flash backs to configuring pcs and modems in the early 90s, including the 6 hours of cursing to get something to work!

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Computers of the nineties. Perfect comparison for this hobby currently. At least we do t have to deal with dip switches. But maybe a memory boot disk wouldn’t hurt for vera.

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I was on the fence about going w/ the Wink and ditch Vera 3. Like the OP said, Vera is like a damn science project but it works well out of the box; I believe it. However, it’s easy to connect to the Z-Wave devices and get going. I couldn’t even get the Wink to connect and pair; apparently I was the only one that had problem but I will try another one soon. I love the Wink’s UI, it’s very well designed and executed.

Vera is like Android - Damn Messy UI
Wink is like iPhone - Clean and organized UI

If it’s being sold at HD or Lowe’s, it’s mainstream. I believe it takes major effort and talent to have a product in those two store, especially something that’s a new technology.

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Let correct your statement. :slight_smile:

Vera is like iPhone iOS8 - bland and unintuitive UI
Wink is like iPhone iOS6 - Clean and organized UI

Wink currently is on sale at HD for $49.95 bundled with 2 of the supported GE lights. The latter normally retail for $15 each. It seems there is an API for Wink that makes it accessible via http. I wonder if a Vera plugin could be made to interact with Wink and as such use eg it’s Zigbee radio and Zwave support for some of the devices Vera does not support.

[url=http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wink-HUB-2-GE-Link-60W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-A19-Connected-Home-LED-Light-Bulbs-PLINK-KIT2/205601641]http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wink-HUB-2-GE-Link-60W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-A19-Connected-Home-LED-Light-Bulbs-PLINK-KIT2/205601641[/url]

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[quote=“Trey T, post:13, topic:183235”]I was on the fence about going w/ the Wink and ditch Vera 3. Like the OP said, Vera is like a damn science project but it works well out of the box; I believe it. However, it’s easy to connect to the Z-Wave devices and get going. I couldn’t even get the Wink to connect and pair; apparently I was the only one that had problem but I will try another one soon. I love the Wink’s UI, it’s very well designed and executed.

Vera is like Android - Damn Messy UI
Wink is like iPhone - Clean and organized UI

If it’s being sold at HD or Lowe’s, it’s mainstream. I believe it takes major effort and talent to have a product in those two store, especially something that’s a new technology.[/quote]

My issue with Wink is that it’s all cloud logic. You lose internet, you lose your “automation”*. Local switches still work (and maybe the app?), but any kind of logic is just gone until you get internet back. I know that doesn’t happen a lot, but having my automation go down for 5 minutes is not really acceptable to me even if it’s just every once in a while. They should be able to easily do this on board, even if they had to charge double for the box.

Also, while you are only dependent on the MCV’s servers for remote access, you are dependent on Wink’s for more than that. At least with the Vera you could still maintain all your functionality if they shut their servers down (though perhaps not as securely). I’m not so hopeful about Wink’s if they decide to shut their servers down.

*It is my understanding that Wink uses Cloud logic (like SmartThings), but I have not used one yet myself. I’ve based this on my research which mainly consisted of reading the Q&As over at amazon where people specifically say if you have no internet, the “robots” don’t work.

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[quote=“BOFH, post:14, topic:183235”]Wink currently is on sale at HD for $49.95 bundled with 2 of the supported GE lights. The latter normally retail for $15 each. It seems there is an API for Wink that makes it accessible via http. I wonder if a Vera plugin could be made to interact with Wink and as such use eg it’s Zigbee radio and Zwave support for some of the devices Vera does not support.

[url=http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wink-HUB-2-GE-Link-60W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-A19-Connected-Home-LED-Light-Bulbs-PLINK-KIT2/205601641]http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wink-HUB-2-GE-Link-60W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-A19-Connected-Home-LED-Light-Bulbs-PLINK-KIT2/205601641[/url][/quote]

If you could get Wink interfaced into Vera, this would indeed be very cool for adding Zigbee since there are some nice Zig devices Lowes and HD sell at a very low price.

… and $50 is a super low entry price!

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[quote=“Trey T, post:13, topic:183235”]I was on the fence about going w/ the Wink and ditch Vera 3. Like the OP said, Vera is like a damn science project but it works well out of the box; I believe it. However, it’s easy to connect to the Z-Wave devices and get going. I couldn’t even get the Wink to connect and pair; apparently I was the only one that had problem but I will try another one soon. I love the Wink’s UI, it’s very well designed and executed.

Vera is like Android - Damn Messy UI
Wink is like iPhone - Clean and organized UI

If it’s being sold at HD or Lowe’s, it’s mainstream. I believe it takes major effort and talent to have a product in those two store, especially something that’s a new technology.[/quote]

Don’t Switch! I had the Wink. Yes it is simple but there are problems. They are not ready. I returned everything to HomeDepot and bought the Vera3. It’s only been a week but the Vera3 is definitely way more stable.

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[quote=“FxEpic, post:17, topic:183235”][quote=“Trey T, post:13, topic:183235”]I was on the fence about going w/ the Wink and ditch Vera 3. Like the OP said, Vera is like a damn science project but it works well out of the box; I believe it. However, it’s easy to connect to the Z-Wave devices and get going. I couldn’t even get the Wink to connect and pair; apparently I was the only one that had problem but I will try another one soon. I love the Wink’s UI, it’s very well designed and executed.

Vera is like Android - Damn Messy UI
Wink is like iPhone - Clean and organized UI

If it’s being sold at HD or Lowe’s, it’s mainstream. I believe it takes major effort and talent to have a product in those two store, especially something that’s a new technology.[/quote]

Don’t Switch! I had the Wink. Yes it is simple but there are problems. They are not ready. I returned everything to HomeDepot and bought the Vera3. It’s only been a week but the Vera3 is definitely way more stable.[/quote]

OP said he was looking at changing but for me it is a way to use ZigBee devices - if it can be interfaced into Vera.

this device looks really interesting for $40… http://www.homedepot.com/p/Quirky-Wink-Spotter-Sensor-White-PSPT1-WH01/204600546?N=5yc1vZc9pl

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Thanks everyone for the responses. The resounding theme seems to be that these other consumer-oriented options just aren’t ready for prime time yet, and based upon further research , I tend to agree. Each has pros & cons, but none of them would give me everything I have with Vera today, beyond compatibility with some shiny new gadgets. A couple don’t allow multiple hubs (controllers) on the same account (there goes my ability to manage primary + weekend home), the ones that do rely solely on an internet connection to function (logic in the cloud) and the one that comes closest to providing the conditional execution of scenes does so in kind of whacky way (SmartThings). So I’ll sit tight for a while with my Vera because it is working relatively reliably. However, I’m not seeing a lot of innovation with Vera, and I’m curious if/when Vera will simply be overtaken by some of these new entrants to the market.

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[quote=“Aaron”][quote=“FxEpic, post:17, topic:183235”][quote=“Trey T, post:13, topic:183235”]I was on the fence about going w/ the Wink and ditch Vera 3. Like the OP said, Vera is like a damn science project but it works well out of the box; I believe it. However, it’s easy to connect to the Z-Wave devices and get going. I couldn’t even get the Wink to connect and pair; apparently I was the only one that had problem but I will try another one soon. I love the Wink’s UI, it’s very well designed and executed.

Vera is like Android - Damn Messy UI
Wink is like iPhone - Clean and organized UI

If it’s being sold at HD or Lowe’s, it’s mainstream. I believe it takes major effort and talent to have a product in those two store, especially something that’s a new technology.[/quote]

Don’t Switch! I had the Wink. Yes it is simple but there are problems. They are not ready. I returned everything to HomeDepot and bought the Vera3. It’s only been a week but the Vera3 is definitely way more stable.[/quote]

OP said he was looking at changing but for me it is a way to use ZigBee devices - if it can be interfaced into Vera.

this device looks really interesting for $40… http://www.homedepot.com/p/Quirky-Wink-Spotter-Sensor-White-PSPT1-WH01/204600546?N=5yc1vZc9pl[/quote]

Since Oct 7th. Wink has had over 50 hours of server outage. We installed 8 GE bulbs to experiment and have come home to a dark house 3 days now. And a lighted house during the day as the lights that are on dont turn off. If you were reliant on wink for a warm house, well it would be a cold day in @#$% when the wife approval rating plummeted. Today, 12th… I have gotten 9 emails announcing various server outages and disconnects. You can Sign up for their status at status.winkapp.com. however the status page server is down now too. :wink:
Edit: now getting status updates of server latency affecting hub connectivity, which. Means that my 11pm scenes won’t run.