Looking at a way to install an automated water shutoff valve from my 1" main water supply coming into the house. Here was my evolution:
First I discovered the Fortrezz and its zwave counterparts in the area of $300 to $400 - but rejected these since I would have to “mortgage the farm” to buy. Then I thought I’d look at what EBay had and saw the occasional valve come up in the $200 area (ELK and Fortrezz) but the bids quickly brought them back to where I could have purchased them new. Then I saw that there were brand new non-zwave valves being sold the $160 to $180 area and became more excited - specifically from Smarthome and Insteon. While not zwave, I figured I could connect one of these to a 12 volt zwave power source and trigger the source from my water sensors … cost $150 for the valve and $80 for two power switches (one to open and one to close) and come out ahead.
Then at last I discovered that simple electrically activated valves are available in the $40 - $50 range. Why not use these? Now to reduce the cost even farther I need to find a single 12v ZWave switch which would have 3 positions: Left on/Right on with Off in the middle (SPDT); so that I can send power to either the close valve circuit, the open valve circuit or it can be off when neither function is required.
2 Question: is there a flaw in my reasoning or would this very inexpensive approach to implementing a water supply shutoff system work? And can anyone recommend a single z wave 120 v to 12 v switch that would provide the circuit 1/2 and off positions that I could use for controlling the valve?
Looking at a way to install an automated water shutoff valve from my 1" main water supply coming into the house. Here was my evolution:
First I discovered the Fortrezz and its zwave counterparts in the area of $300 to $400 - but rejected these since I would have to “mortgage the farm” to buy. Then I thought I’d look at what EBay had and saw the occasional valve come up in the $200 area (ELK and Fortrezz) but the bids quickly brought them back to where I could have purchased them new. Then I saw that there were brand new non-zwave valves being sold the $160 to $180 area and became more excited - specifically from Smarthome and Insteon. While not zwave, I figured I could connect one of these to a 12 volt zwave power source and trigger the source from my water sensors … cost $150 for the valve and $80 for two power switches (one to open and one to close) and come out ahead.
Then at last I discovered that simple electrically activated valves are available in the $40 - $50 range. Why not use these? Now to reduce the cost even farther I need to find a single 12v ZWave switch which would have 3 positions: Left on/Right on with Off in the middle (SPDT); so that I can send power to either the close valve circuit, the open valve circuit or it can be off when neither function is required.
I have 2 Questions: is there a flaw in my reasoning or would this very inexpensive approach to implementing a water supply shutoff system work? And can anyone recommend a single z wave 120 v to 12 v switch that would provide the circuit 1/2 and off positions that I could use for controlling the valve?[/quote]
This works fine! My irrigation system consists of a couple of motorized ball valves ($45 or so from China), and I used to control them using Fibaro dual relay units (now using an OpenSprinkler unit). The relays in these units are electrically isolated from the mains power so you can switch 12v or 24v for the valve with them.
I got 3-wire valves: 2 wires are permanently hooked up to the 24v supply, and 1 wire is switched by the Fibaro relay; the valve opens when the switching wire is connected, and closes when disconnected. That way it can open and close with just a single SPST relay.
So get the right kind of valve and you’re set for like $90 or so, including the Z-wave relay. I have 1 valve left over so I was actually considering using it in the way you propose, and have the water shut off if one of the flood sensors is tripped.
To clarify for takeabyte, The need for a 3 position switch would be: Position 1 closes the valve, Position 2 Opens the Valve, with the center position being off so that no power is applied to either circuit - since the water line is not in a place that is readily accessible - ability to remotely control the valve would be important. The more expensive alternative is installing 2-120/12 volt on/off switches: Switch 1 when turned on would close the valve and after a delay would turn off, Switch 2 would open the valve and after delay would turn off. But downside of the the latter approach is that it would require twice the expenditure when hopefully a single switch could be installed to do the same thing. Hope this helps.
To intveltr - Thank you for your reply - very very encouraging to know that you are doing this and it is working very well.
Please understand I am trying to understand how the system is set up to work …
My mental hangup is the concern (perhaps unfounded) with using 2 poles is that the constant power being applied to keep the valve open may waste electricity and which, when applied over a long term, may result in damage/failure to either the relay or the valve motor - causing the water supply to turn off when the power is lost to the setup.
ORRRRR - just another thought - does the setup simply send a momentary (positive) pulse to open the valve - and once pulsed the valve remains open. While a second (negative) momentary pulse does the same to close the valve - so that my concern about a constant application of electricity being required to keep the valve open is totally unfounded and without merit?
The power supply is indeed constantly connected, but when the valve reaches the open/closed position, it stops drawing power. The valve is designed to operate like this, and the relay can easily handle the tiny current needed to signal the valve to remain open. Mine have been sitting happily in the garden for over a year, without failing.
If there’s a power failure, the valve doesn’t close; it just stays in its last position… it needs power to drive the motor.
[quote=“intveltr, post:7, topic:187017”]The power supply is indeed constantly connected, but when the valve reaches the open/closed position, it stops drawing power. The valve is designed to operate like this, and the relay can easily handle the tiny current needed to signal the valve to remain open. Mine have been sitting happily in the garden for over a year, without failing.
If there’s a power failure, the valve doesn’t close; it just stays in its last position… it needs power to drive the motor.[/quote]
Intveltr,
Which unit are you actually using? Are the plastic housings/valves water proof and rated for outdoor use? When using a 1" valve do they reduce down the interior ball to cheap out?
This is how I do it. Working perfect for a few years now. This is a KDS B03 valve. Cost around $50.
This valve remains in the last condition should power fail. So no constant power is needed. One relay to open and one to close. This way you have two controllable states for rules, PLEG, or scenes. I added the wire to send a zone state to my alarm panel so I know the state of the valve.
I also added a manual bypass valve if I want to isolate the electric valve for servicing, however the electric valve can also be operated manually if need be.
Blu=ground NOTE
Blu/Wht=+12vdc
Grn=zone
Grn/Wht=zone
Org/Wht&Brn/Wht=M1RBcommon(11,12)
Brn=close valve
Org=open valve
I purchased a “normally open” valve and wired that to a zwave outdoor module. When the outdoor module gets the signal it powers the valve to close. Obviously if power is out I am screwed.
I then created a scene where if my zwave water sensors are tripped they power on the zwave outdoor module which activates the valve and stops water flowing in the main line.
@Inzax: Any source on that valve? I may end up doing this when I have a water softener installed on my main water line.
Can you provide details on the installation setup?
[quote=“BOFH, post:12, topic:187017”]@Inzax: Any source on that valve? I may end up doing this when I have a water softener installed on my main water line.
Can you provide details on the installation setup?[/quote]
Here you go. I did this when I was on ADT Pulse. Don’t hate me…I was not learned in the ways of vera at the time. Everything of course, moved over nicely when I went to vera.
Edit: I got the valve off ebay. A search for “normally open water valve” should do it.
Which unit are you actually using? Are the plastic housings/valves water proof and rated for outdoor use? When using a 1" valve do they reduce down the interior ball to cheap out?[/quote]
The ones I have are very similar to this: http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32294068433.html
According to the factory they are suitable for outdoor use and somewhat waterproof but not submersible. I have one in a hot and humid greenhouse, and others outside exposed but with a bit of wood over them to keep the rain off. So far they are holding up fine.
So if you loose power you also loose water too?[/quote]
You could always connect the valve to a UPS or for a manual approach, use a manual ball valve in a bypass loop around the solenoid valve to restore water in a power out situation. I like the idea of shutting the water down in a power failure.
Another inexpensive Z-wave water shutoff valve is actually the EcoNet Controls EBV-105 (http://www.econetcontrols.com/). The only requirement is a that a lever valve is installed into the water line. The EBV-105 is mounted outside this valve quickly and easily. It is easy to enroll into the Vera UI7 network where it shows up as a light switch (ON = Open; OFF = Closed); perhaps, it is possible to change the XML and JSON files to have it show up in the UI as a valve, but I have not done this. I have four Fortrezz water sensors placed in areas of potential flooding or water leaks (laundry area, kitchen sink/dish washer, bathrooms). The water sensors trigger a simple scene which closes the water valve. The EBV-105 as well as my Vera Edge are each connected to a UPS. Both use rather low power and each of the UPSs lasts several hours in case of power failure. I have no doubt that it is also possible to create direct associations between the water sensors and the valve but I have not tried this. In my experience the Fortrezz water sensors work best and reliably whereas I had a bad experience with a Fibaro water sensor which did not work reliably in my set-up. The EBV-105 Z-wave water shut-off valve is available at HomeSeer for $ 135.- (http://store.homeseer.com/store/EcoNet-Controls-C322.aspx) and comes with all mounting material and an instruction sheet. I think this is a very nice and simple alternative to the rather expensive Fortrezz Water Shut-off valve.