Oops…on that last sentence, meant to say no way to get neutral to the switch boxes without running new wire.
Hi Steve,
Okay, that is a bummer but not the end of the road. One alternative is to use an Aeotec Micro Dimmer switch and put it in the junction box with the fixture. Then using the existing wire that now carries line and load to the switch boxes, rewire it to have neutral and line. Use this to daisy chain line and neutral to all of the boxes and then install Linear WT00Z Scene controllers in the switch boxes. Use these to control the Aeotec Micro Dimmer in the fixture.
Another alternative is to see if there is another box near the existing switch boxes that has a neutral wire in it. In a lot of homes a box may be very close to another box in another room and they are back to back or nearly back to back. Remove one of the boxes from the wall and connect a new wire between the boxes. Install an “old work” box to replace the removed box.
-bob
Hmm…well, i’m on the top floor, so could conceivably fish a single 14awg wire up to the attic and connect it to a neutral…seems messy and not to code, though. I like the idea of using the Micro Dimmer. I’m going to have to think about it a little more to better understand what’s going where. Thanks again for the help.
If your in an old house and have no neutrals to switches, your going to end up with this problem over and over again. All Z-wave switches need to be powered up 24/7 (hot and neutral required for this) and old switches didn’t need to. So prepare yourself for alot of this before you even start to tackle this one find the path for the rest also.
If your in an old house and have no neutrals to switches, your going to end up with this problem over and over again. All Z-wave switches need to be powered up 24/7 (hot and neutral required for this) and old switches didn’t need to. So prepare yourself for alot of this before you even start to tackle this one find the path for the rest also.[/quote]
House was built in 1984. Other switches I have replaced do have standard line/neutral. So here’s something interesting. The switch box with the line/load is paired with another 3-way that controls the foyer light. It is on a different circuit. That 3-way (for the foyer) is paired with another 3-way that is located in the same junction box as my front porch light (standard switch with a neutral). So, I’m wondering if I can somehow wire up the foyer light with z-wave master/accessory and steal one of the 3 wires to tie in to the neutral on the porch light (then bring it up to the switch next to my existing line/load 3-way). I’m guessing the only problem would be if line and load for the foyer originated where I had the neutral (then I’d have to use all 3 wires?). I know there are switches that don’t use the traveler, so I could steal the traveler and use it for neutral. I’m all over the place here. I understand if no one follows my brain logic.
Hi Steve,
If I follow you correctly, yes you could do that. Make a drawing on paper of all of the boxes and the interconnecting wires. Sometimes it is easier to visualize it on paper. If you can run a neutral from another box to the new boxes that would solve the problem. To be kosher, you should probably steal both the hot and neutral from the foyer if possible, that way the neutral and hot would be on the same circuit.
-bob
This is essential if you have switched neutrals (individual circuit earth leakage for example or just two pole mcb’s)
This is essential if you have switched neutrals (individual circuit earth leakage for example or just two pole mcb’s)[/quote]
Hmm…just got more complicated. I see what you’re saying. Since the two lights are on different circuits, I couldn’t steal the neutral from one circuit and tie it in to the other without also bringing the hot along (to complete the circuit on a single breaker). So how would I then tie the neutrals at the light fixtures in to the neutral of the new switches (wouldn’t they be on different circuits)? I need to visio this stuff.
So, this is what it looks like (I stole the drawing off the internets, but my config is the same).
The 4-way is what I’m trying to get the neutral to. The 3-way with the source at SW1 is where my neutral wire lives (but I need to get it to SW2 of that same 3-way so I can provide neutral to SW1 on the 4-way drawing).
Hi Steve,
Yes the first figure is what I figured your situation to be. Why did you include the second diagram? If you had the circuit from the second drawing then you could make it work by putting the main dimmer in one box and a scene controller in the second box. The first box would use the white for neutral, black for hot and red for load. The second box would have hot and neutral and the red would not be used or needed.
-bob
@magnum003 - If your circuit looks like your first diagram, then you cannot use the GE switches, as you were already told by @rbakley. But you could use an Aeon in-wall switch as in the attached diagram.
[quote=“rbakley, post:30, topic:191662”]Hi Steve,
Yes the first figure is what I figured your situation to be. Why did you include the second diagram? If you had the circuit from the second drawing then you could make it work by putting the main dimmer in one box and a scene controller in the second box. The first box would use the white for neutral, black for hot and red for load. The second box would have hot and neutral and the red would not be used or needed.
-bob[/quote]
So the reason for the second diagram was to show where the neutral wire originates and where it needs to get to supply my 4-way. SW1 from the 4-way and SW2 from the 3-way are in the same junction box (neither has a neutral wire). The neutral wire lives in SW1 of the 3-way diagram/figure.
Thanks for the drawing z-waver. Kind of what I was afraid of. The problem is that the light fixture that has the line+neutral is jam packed with wires (IIRC there were 4 separate 2-wire cables entering that box). I don’t think I have room to get a micro-controller in there as well. I don’t think I can run it from the second fixture with just load and neutral.
Steve
Hi Steve,
BINGO!
If you are willing to change out the foyer light switches in the second diagram for a Zwave dimmer and a WT00Z scene controller then you can make this work without adding wires. Power and neutral will feed to both lights from the foyer SW1 using the white and black wires. SW1 in the foyer circuit will be re-wired so that the white is neutral, black is hot and red is the load. SW1 will feed hot and neutral up to the light fixture and then back to SW2 to power the WT00Z. The Red wire from SW1 will feed the light along with the neutral.
This way you will have hot and neutral in the box for SW1 in the first diagram. The two wire connects the load and neutral to the light. the 3 wire cable continue the neutral and traveler to the GE auxiliary switches in the other boxes. The 2 wire that goes to the first light is not used.
I probably confused you, but maybe you can see what I am trying to explain.
-bob
Thanks Bob. I get what you’re saying all the way up until I get in to the box with SW2 (3-way) and SW1 (4-way). I’ve now got neutral in the box where I need it. If I understand correctly, you’re saying I need to now use the hot and neutral wires from the foyer circuit to power the “hallway” circuit on which the lights controlled by the 4-way are powered (keeps things kosher and doesn’t switch the neutral). So the existing 2-wire that comes in to the first light (hot and neutral on it’s own circuit for hallway) get’s wire nutted and taped never to be discussed again?
Hi Steve,
Yes you got it. Sorry it was confusing to try and explain. I am not real good with creating diagrams. The downside is that you have the additional expense of the switches for the foyer, but maybe you were planning on replacing them anyway. It would definitely be less trouble than adding new wires to an existing structure.
-bob
Hi Steve, I have made notes below the original diagrams for clarification.
-bob